The Unyielding Spirit of Women Veterans: A Conversation with The Oath We Took Podcast's Tabitha Bartley

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Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves.

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Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging.

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My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people.

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This is why values still hold value.

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This is Transacting Value.

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I don't believe that humans and people are meant to do life alone and to be alone, and I think that's why the transition from the Marine Corps was so hard for me, because all of a sudden it was like I felt really alone.

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Today on Transacting Value, after having been told you matter, you're a part of something bigger than yourself and you have a role to play in that end state, in that objective, in that mission accomplishment.

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How lonely can it be when you lose it, lose it, when you feel like you have nothing left to offer, nothing left to contribute and everybody's left you alone?

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How much of a burden do you feel like and how likely are you going to be to ask for help?

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In this conversation, we're talking with host of the Oath We Took podcast on Wreaths Across America Radio, Tabitha Bartley, all about her journey as she got out of the Marine Corps and aspects of her depression and aspects of her futility and loneliness and lack of boundaries that led her to become the strong, independent person that she is today.

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So, folks, without further ado, I'm Porter, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value.

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Transacting how are you doing?

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I'm good.

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How are you?

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Thank you so much for having me on.

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Absolutely.

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I appreciate you taking some time out of your day too.

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I know you're.

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You're a mom and you work all the time right.

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As I understand it, you're only recording your podcast once a month too.

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Correct.

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Yeah, that's how we figured out.

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You know boundaries and making time, because I was not being too accommodating but it seemed like I was recording so constantly and just couldn't keep track.

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Yes, so to make life a little easier, more manageable for myself and my husband, I now record once a month.

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Nice, nice.

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And I got to say too, the boundaries piece is probably the biggest thing that I've learned, and so for anybody new to the show, first off welcome.

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But in case you were new, my active duty contract in the Marine Corps just ended a few months ago and so I'm in the reserves now.

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But in that process I'd say, probably the two things that you don't get issued in the Marine Corps is a wife or a spouse.

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So all of those issues are your problem.

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If you were meant to have them, you'd be issued.

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One is the saying, I think, and the other is insight into how to build and design healthy boundaries.

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Goodness gracious.

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No, those certainly aren't given to you, which is fine.

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You don't necessarily need them, because needs of the Marine Corps, in our case, come first anyways, and so if you've got to deploy, if you've got to train, if you've got to do whatever, well, your stressors are second, unfortunately.

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Yea, I was lucky that my first job out of the Marine Corp, taught me those boundaries and demanded that I have them because I had no boundaries in the Marine Corp.

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I was constantly doing things that my husband was like, you don't need to be doing that.

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That is above and beyond and above and beyond.

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" I worked at Purdue University, they were very strict of, like these are your hours, you have a desktop computer, you are not allowed to take a laptop home, we will not contact you.

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We will not contact you at home unless it is some kind of crazy emergency and if I hadn't had that man, I don't know where I'd be, completely and utterly burnt out.

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So I was lucky that I was able to get in a position at an organization that demanded those boundaries in such a good way.

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It wasn't like I felt segregated from them, but it was like you need to maintain this.

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Like this is work is work, which you can't say the same for the Marine Corps.

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So, again, like you need to maintain this.

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Like this is work is work, which you can't say the same for the marine corps.

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So, again, like you said, it's fair, you can't say the same for the marine corps.

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Because, especially to be a good leader, I believe that, like you have to, you have to allow some, you know some non-boundaries some non-boundaries, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's, there's definite gray zones and blurred lines.

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And you know, know, which is kind of strange, because in my opinion, the Marine Corps does its best to be a strategic warfighting organization but due to the nature of its, let's say, overall composition with, like a Marine Air Ground Task Force, for example, as a warfighting body it's, I think, usually relegated to a tactical type environment more often than not and it just tries to fit into this strategic plan.

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And you know, it's like I've never been on Capitol Hill, but I can only assume that as the Joint Chiefs sit around and talk, whoever at that point in time is representing the Marine Corps is like guys, really, we can do this, just give us a chance every single day.

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And I think the saying is how does it go?

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The Marine Corps is the branch that the nation doesn't need.

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They want yeah, yeah, you know, let's just start here before we get a little bit too muddled.

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So we've got people that listen to the show all over the country and we've got distribution.

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Actually, now, officially, I have two plays in South America, so I am now global, officially, worldwide.

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Yeah, I've been on every continent but Antarctica, which is pretty sweet.

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And if there's any researchers or NGS listeners, take me with you digitally.

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But anyway, this opportunity, I think, to talk about what it looks like from your perspective as you've gotten through a lot of these stressors that, as I understand, you've had to deal with, boundaries just being one and probably the least of them.

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Let's start at the beginning Tab, take a couple minutes.

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Who are you, when are you from and what sort of things have shaped your perspective?

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Yep, so I was born and raised Lafayette, Indiana.

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Most people don't know where that is, but I always say Purdue University or in between Chicago and Indianapolis.

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So it's pretty ag heavy Like.

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When I went there it was like one public school at the time and the rest was like county schools and pretty medium to small community.

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I would say pretty medium to small community.

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I would say I never had any aspirations to join the Marine Corps.

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I was actually going to community college to study social work and a recruiter called me one day, was like hey, you want to come in and chat?

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I was like sure, but there's no way I'm joining the Marine Corps.

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That's just not going to happen.

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I knew nothing about the Marine Corps either, but went in and instantly he was from New York and a huge New York Yankees fan and I was a massive New York Yankees fan at that time.

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So we're talking like Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter era.

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We probably spent like 40 minutes talking about baseball and like nothing Marine Corps.

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And then it came to talking Marine Corps, specifically public affairs, combat correspondence, and I was like I had no idea that that was a job in the Marine Corps.

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Like man, that's awesome.

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And I was.

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My husband calls me a jock.

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So I did a lot of sports in high school.

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It was very much like that personality, show choir, and so when he was talking about that job but then the Marine Corps, and like what it represented, I was like, dang, that's what I want to do.

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So ended up joining the Marine Corps.

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And that's kind of a long story of how that happened in regards to like how many times I had to go to MEPS to get medically qualified.

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But I ended up joining the Marine Corps getting public affairs.

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First duty station was Marine Corps, base Quantico.

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Absolutely loved it, worked for the base newspaper and then ran the community relations program at Quantico.

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And then I PCS to which is a change of station to Columbia, South Carolina, where I did the marketing and public affairs for the recruiting station there, where I ended up getting injured with multiple organ prolapses and having to transition out of the Marine Corps very unplanned, unexpectedly.

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My transition was not smooth at all.

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There were a lot of a lot of hurdles, was not smooth at all, there were a lot of hurdles.

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I ended up moving back home working for Purdue University and now I work at the Department of Agriculture doing public affairs again.

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So it's a super fast overview, yeah, okay, so let's just gloss past for a second that your organs fell out and that was all starting your transition process.

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Mentally, everything that goes with that, physically in your case, everything that goes with that physically in your case, everything that goes with that, and emotionally, I'm sure, everything that goes with that aside, how are you doing now?

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A lot better.

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I still think, you know, with disabilities and mental health, there's like good days and bad days, and I think the coming to the reality of you're never you're never just going to be fixed Because I think what I've realized is like we're not completely broken and so, like this idea of like I need to be fixed and be completely broken, I think I had to really like challenge that perception to realize that I'll never be the person I was, yes, and there are challenges that I will forever have to face, but I'm not broken.

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And I think for me, a lot of the challenge was feeling like I couldn't talk about the things I was going through, and so over the last few years, I've gotten very you know, very vocal about it, and so I'm now at the point where I feel comfortable talking about it.

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I feel comfortable advocating for myself or even just having conversations around you know, the mental health and the physical health, and that has put me in such a better spot as well, as I'm a huge advocate in holistic health and I've taken a lot of approaches holistically besides just what the VA offers, like what I do biocraniosecret therapy, which is one which has helped me massively for PTSD anxiety.

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It's energy spine work for PTSD anxiety.

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It's energy spine work, non-invasive.

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I do acupuncture my diet.

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I've completely changed my diet over the years and then looked at things from that.

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I do grounding, which is where you take off your shoes and you just walk in the grass, lay in the dirt, gardening, so a lot of those things that I think kind of going back more to the roots of like when I grew up, and like the things we did, the things we ate, and just paying more attention to everything around me, from cosmetics to, you know, hair care products.

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There's so many things that impact us that I don't think we realize it, and so when I was searching for my mental and physical health, I was finding ties to so many of those things and they were things that I could control and it gave me back some power because I could control these things.

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I couldn't exactly control not having a panic attack.

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I couldn't control the pain per se, but I could do these things to make it better.

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Right, removing caffeine completely from my diet was a big one when it came to the anxiety and just a lot of other things in my diet.

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So that's been a huge help finding the things that I can control and controlling them.

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Yeah, well, awareness goes a long way.

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I think it's interesting too, though, that, like in your case, was very similar in my case, in that where I started to find some degree of comfort and security and stability was ultimately in things that I had been exposed to as a kid or that I grew up through and I think, maybe even inadvertently, just reverted to this nurturing phase of I don't know activities makes it sound like I was sucking my thumb.

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But processes, I guess.

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So I just hit 14 years a couple months ago.

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Processes, I guess.

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So I just hit 14 years a couple months ago.

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So you know, for the last 14 years I didn't really have anything that that I was sort of raised around.

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I look back and I think, okay, I was barefoot most of the time I generally still am, but we grew up around orange groves and we grew up fishing and we grew up just climbing trees and being outside in Florida and you know I didn't have that.

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You can't be an adult in a tree, it's just not socially acceptable.

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And so when I got out, I found that being in more natural places helped and you know, different foods and, like you said, changing your diet a little bit and you just you roll back to things that you're like okay, this is where I feel better and you reel back to where you feel better and then you can start from there.

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But I think, if you try to tackle one piece at a time, or at once everything from any other position and also let me be clear about something too, for anybody listening the transition we're talking about doesn't have to be getting out of the military, it's just any life change where there's a substantive difference, or maybe even dissonance, to whatever's happening in your life.

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You look at cops, teachers, kids moving out of home for the first time.

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You look at you know, retiring after a long career, the midlife crisis position Now you've got a Mustang and you're 60, whatever it is.

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I think all encompassing these points are very, very similarly treated, at least in the beginning, and, like you said, you can control that and it gives you a sense of stability.

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I agree 100%.

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All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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I think all encompassing these points are very, very similarly treated, at least in the beginning, and, like you said, you can control that and it gives you a sense of stability.

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I agree 100%.

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Now, saying that something that I know nothing about, you said multiple organ prolapses.

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What are we talking about?

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Yeah, so I had no idea, as you were saying, like when I was in the Marine Corps, I didn't have family around me, right?

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So as a younger Marine I also didn't have female Marines around me.

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My third child was cleared at six weeks, went to cover an eight mile hike and ended up the next day in the emergency room because my uterus and my bladder were literally falling out of my body.

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And, as you know, tricare doesn't work very fast and for women it's considered specialty care, so I couldn't just go to my PCM and say I need to see a gynecologist for this or a specialist for this.

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It was like I had to jump through all of these hoops.

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So it's.

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It was months of, and at that time in the ER I didn't know what was going on because the ER doctor didn't, I guess, know what a uterus was.

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But yes, so it was months of that to then be told on the final physical that it wasn't life or death and plenty of women live with it.

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And although that's the case, I couldn't stand for more than 15 minutes without severe pain.

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I couldn't function, was having all sorts of like bodily issues.

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These were also triggering complex migraines which imitate strokes, migraines which imitate strokes.

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It was causing all of these issues, but it was like, because it was a woman's issue, it wasn't a big deal.

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And that was the first time for me you know that time while I was in the Marine Corps, that I had something going on that I felt like I couldn't talk about because it felt like a taboo subject.

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It felt like it made other people uncomfortable.

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I'd gone through multiple hip surgeries and that was, I feel like in the Marine Corps you talk about your health a lot, right, because it's like part of like the readiness to things.

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So it wasn't taboo.

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As we're in the civilian world, you know you don't talk about your disabilities and things of that nature, and I get it.

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But in the Marine Corps you do, because it has to do with everything you do.

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And so I started feeling very, very alone.

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And then it was like surgery is your only option.

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I've already had enough surgeries, I don't want another surgery.

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I don't want to be put to sleep because, honestly, I don't want to die, and that's I thought I was going to die if I was put to sleep, which then goes back to PTSD and anxiety and mental health that I didn't realize where I was mental health wise then at that point where I was mental health wise then at that point.

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And so going through that journey while transitioning out of the Marine Corps and then trying to find a job, but not technically being disabled, because, as you know, the claims process to getting disabilities is really really long and I couldn't get treatment from the VA until I had a disability because I would have had to pay the medical bills.

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But I don't have a job yet and so all of these hoops and things where there are protections for people with disabilities, I technically wasn't disabled yet and so the challenge of that and then it being something that at that time felt like I couldn't talk about it was just, it was, it was hard and there's not a ton of treatments around it, there's not a ton of studies.

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So even at the time it wasn't like I couldn't kind of find my own solutions and I tried and that's where I was like looking at my diet and things of that nature, but eventually I ended up getting treatment which is pelvic floor physical therapy I've been able to do that and some other bio-craniosacic therapy, so I've avoided having to get surgery.

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But in sharing what I've gone through, I've met so many women, specifically female Marines, who've had the same injury and yet never was it brought up in any of my postpartum.

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All of these times that I feel like it should have.

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You know, when we're talking physical health for a Marine, I mean that's extremely important.

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You should be able to physically get back into health, and it was something that I knew nothing about.

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Oh me either.

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So, which is kind of interesting, I what is this 2024?

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So eight years ago I went through a course that the Marine Corps calls the force fitness instructor course, and nothing against the human performance division, where it falls under, because it's come a long way, even in the last eight years.

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But the role of that program is essentially to have Marine Corps branded fitness coaches not certified athletic trainers, but fitness coaches and then beyond that, whatever certifications and licenses you get on your own, it's up to you.

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But it's biomechanics, kinesiology, anatomy, physiology, it's programming, it's strength training and agility and all sorts of other aspects of fitness programming, and for what it is, it works great.

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For what it isn't, there's a huge gap when it comes to, for example, reproductive health.

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I don't know why that's such a taboo topic in the military, or maybe even in the US, in my experience, and it actually, I think, is strange that it's such a taboo topic in the military because everybody makes let's call them reproductive jokes all the time, right, all the time.

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And you know, anytime somebody comes in and my experience lies with the infantry, so it is sort of a different subculture as well but anytime somebody comes in and says anything, let's say, related to reproductive activities from the weekend, everybody's got something to say.

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But as soon as there's a serious issue, generally speaking, it gets questioned as oh wait a minute, are you being serious, dude?

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Go back to work, you'll be fine.

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Sleep it off, it's fine.

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Don't worry about going to formation, don't worry about PT.

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Take this Z-Pack or whatever and go on your way as opposed to yes.

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But here's what that means, see, because physically it's treatable, mentally also, in most cases it's treatable.

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But there's a shock factor when you start seeing some things changing and you're still expected to perform as if that shock doesn't exist or hasn't existed.

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And there's a very big difference between well, let's call it mission accomplishment as an objective warfighting aspect, and making troop welfare, the mission that you're trying to accomplish, which generally is a second priority Again, in my experience, exclusively.

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And so when you got out, you're obviously more on your own because you don't have the same resources right down the hall or you know some battalion aid station or something.

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So what did you do.

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How'd you work through some of that?

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I tried to join some veteran organizations and didn't get the welcoming I thought I would because of my gender.

00:20:50.126 --> 00:20:54.846
And for me that was really strange because that wasn't my experience in the Marine Corps.

00:20:54.846 --> 00:20:57.729
My gender really didn't play a role Most of the time.

00:20:57.729 --> 00:20:58.755
When it did, it was a positive.

00:20:58.755 --> 00:21:17.702
So it was really strange to feel so alone, feel like a burden to my family and my support group that had never served, to then think I found this place that I can go and be welcomed and not feel like a burden, to then all of a sudden be called a WM and just like all of these things.

00:21:17.702 --> 00:21:19.847
And it was just like, oh, interesting.

00:21:19.847 --> 00:21:28.766
And so I started an organization for female veterans because I was like, okay, if I'm feeling this way, there's so many who must be going through this as well.

00:21:29.847 --> 00:21:42.684
And there was a time specifically where I was like fighting to get care with the VA and I don't like to say that I was suicidal, but I understood how, in that transition, a veteran could come to the conclusion of suicide.

00:21:42.684 --> 00:21:50.067
And, like I said, I had this massive support system and I still was feeling like such a burden that it was like, would they be better without me?

00:21:50.067 --> 00:21:52.400
And once I kind of calmed down from that.

00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:58.743
I was like I have to do something because if I'm feeling this way, there's so many others who are and they're completely alone.

00:21:58.743 --> 00:22:09.422
So started an organization for women veterans and then, luckily, that also opened up to other organizations in the area welcoming me and finding a place.

00:22:09.422 --> 00:22:22.872
So, luckily, that one organization was kind of just an anomaly in its of itself and started getting involved in the veteran community there and then it ended up me running for for office, which I never thought I would do.

00:22:22.872 --> 00:22:34.680
Have no political aspirations, but it was just like there were a lot of issues that needed solutions and not like party solutions, like people solutions, and here are solutions that we could do.

00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.807
Like, let's do it.

00:22:37.047 --> 00:22:54.179
I was very specific how I wanted the campaign ran, refused to do things that other people had done and previously do, and strategies, just because they were strategies ultimately didn't win because it was COVID, I was in a rural area and everything went virtual and that just like didn't work, obviously fairly so.

00:22:54.179 --> 00:23:16.914
But it taught me so much and it got me interacting with so many veterans and different entities and I think the more I shared my story, the more power I felt like I had over everything that was going on, the more people that I met that didn't feel safe, I think, in their spaces to share their stories but were encouraged after hearing mine and my experience.

00:23:16.914 --> 00:23:23.648
So I guess I kind of used it as that driving force to do as much good as possible.

00:23:23.648 --> 00:23:31.365
I don't need to do like great things or like magnificent things by any means, but it was just like okay, more good needs to come from from things.

00:23:31.365 --> 00:23:39.127
So that was kind of like the driving force that's like every superhero origin story, you know.

00:23:39.147 --> 00:23:40.355
I mean like as a character arc.

00:23:40.355 --> 00:23:43.080
You go through this crazy whatever.

00:23:43.080 --> 00:23:54.638
You know gamma radiation, spider bite, you know parents dying, whatever traumatic thing happened as a catalyst, and then you get to a point where you're like, well, I can either own this or run from it.

00:23:54.638 --> 00:24:01.892
You know, spider-man didn't stick to walls you remember that in the movie because he started doubting himself and you were like falling off your walls.

00:24:01.892 --> 00:24:02.535
That's what happened.

00:24:02.615 --> 00:24:11.000
Yeah, but once, once you start to own your baggage, you start to own what makes you you, your experiences, your outlook, perspectives, biases.

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.541
I think that's the mark of adulthood.

00:24:12.541 --> 00:24:37.224
And I think when you reach that level of maturity where not only are you willing to own it and accept it, but you can do something with it positively and understand that you could also do something with it negatively, when you reach that level of growth or let's just call it human potential, not to get too actualized here but when you reach that level of human potential, I think that's when you're able to actually make a difference.

00:24:37.224 --> 00:24:45.280
And maybe that's why it's called actualization, because you can't really do anything before, then you actually can after.

00:24:45.280 --> 00:25:02.281
I don't know, but think about any, let's say, high-stress upbringing as a kid, verbal, emotional domestic abuse or orphans or, off the top of my head, any other circumstance that you might have to work through as a kid.

00:25:02.281 --> 00:25:16.682
It's easy to put distance between you then and you when you're older, because either as a kid you say, well, this can't be how things go, this just doesn't feel right, something about this is off, it has to be better than this somewhere.

00:25:17.585 --> 00:25:24.516
And then you get older and you either put some blocks up or you just assume that role and you become very similar, or whatever applies.

00:25:24.516 --> 00:25:28.102
And then you look back and you say, well, what do I do about it?

00:25:28.102 --> 00:25:33.596
You know, does this become who I am, or am I going to create who I could be?

00:25:33.596 --> 00:25:40.801
And that point of awareness, I think, only happens when you've got outside influence, because it takes a village to raise people.

00:25:40.801 --> 00:25:42.886
Not, you know, we're just older kids.

00:25:42.886 --> 00:25:47.666
And what was your outside influence?

00:25:47.666 --> 00:25:49.281
What was your catalyst to help you?

00:25:49.281 --> 00:25:50.599
Like you know what?

00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.604
Maybe I can actually take some control and do something with this.

00:25:53.604 --> 00:25:56.121
I'm not the victim here, I'm not the burden that I felt like.

00:25:56.121 --> 00:25:58.803
What was the impetus there?

00:25:59.535 --> 00:26:01.815
That's funny that you bring up childhood trauma.

00:26:01.815 --> 00:26:09.115
I dealt with a ton of childhood trauma but it was in a whole different way and I think you're right.

00:26:09.115 --> 00:26:12.646
Like as a child it almost was easier coping with that stuff.

00:26:12.646 --> 00:26:16.939
And trauma is not the same every single time.

00:26:16.939 --> 00:26:19.444
Like, traumatic incidences can be varied.

00:26:19.444 --> 00:26:21.415
How you react to them can be so varied.

00:26:21.415 --> 00:26:30.730
The impact of them can vary by different incident, and I think for me, for this, it was again.

00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:34.623
I said I have this massive support system and it honestly was my husband.

00:26:34.623 --> 00:26:40.761
It got to the point where I was like, fine, to ask for the physical help.

00:26:40.761 --> 00:26:50.288
And then, when it came to the mental health, it was like I got to the point where I asked him to go to an appointment with me because I knew that I wouldn't ask for the mental health.

00:26:50.288 --> 00:26:57.903
And so we go to this appointment you know, we're asking for all of these things that I needed physically and the PCM was like, is you know?

00:26:57.903 --> 00:26:58.444
Is that it?

00:26:58.444 --> 00:27:05.234
Husband's looking at me and she's looking at me and I'm just sitting there and he's like, no, we would like to see a mental health provider.

00:27:05.234 --> 00:27:14.941
I'm just sitting there and he's like, nope, we would like to see a mental health provider, and that's what I needed, not because I was like personally scared to ask or anything like that.

00:27:14.961 --> 00:27:19.595
It was just like I felt like such a burden or that my trauma wasn't as warranted as other people's trauma.

00:27:19.595 --> 00:27:23.705
So me taking away from somebody else, getting to go or like all of those things.

00:27:23.705 --> 00:27:38.384
And I think oftentimes, sometimes, we have to ask other people to be our advocates in moments like that, and there's nothing wrong with that and I don't believe that humans and people are meant to do life alone and to be alone.

00:27:38.384 --> 00:27:49.171
And I think that's why the transition from the Marine Corps was so hard for me, because all of a sudden it was like I felt really alone as where again we were talking boundaries, boundaries didn't really exist in the Marine Corps.

00:27:49.171 --> 00:27:57.326
I had great leadership, like just all of those things, and so I had asked for my husband to ask for help.

00:27:57.567 --> 00:28:07.760
And then I went through cognitive therapy, which I think for anybody who has PTSD, I definitely suggest them to look into cognitive therapy.

00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:13.056
It was one that you know I didn't want to just sit there like on a couch and talk to somebody and like drone on and on.

00:28:13.056 --> 00:28:25.635
That was just like I didn't want to do that, and so cognitive therapy, there was homework, there was tools, there was conversations not re-traumatizing and living through them.

00:28:25.635 --> 00:28:28.665
But you see how you think about something this way?

00:28:28.665 --> 00:28:33.525
Well, trauma made you think that way, and now you need to retrain your brain to think this way.

00:28:34.756 --> 00:28:37.281
All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:28:39.175 --> 00:28:46.515
Join us for Transacting Value, where we discuss practical applications of personal values, every Monday at 9 am on our website, transactingvaluepodcast.

00:28:46.515 --> 00:28:48.298
com.

00:28:48.298 --> 00:28:51.204
Wednesdays at 5 pm and Sundays at noon wreathsacrossamerica.

00:28:51.204 --> 00:28:54.359
org/ radio.

00:28:56.931 --> 00:28:58.857
You see how you think about something this way.

00:28:58.857 --> 00:29:20.306
Well, trauma made you think that way, and now you need to retrain your brain to think this way, and so that was kind of the catalyst for me of then feeling like I was in control, because once I realized that these things I actually could control although I didn't make my brain change things to this way I now could take these steps to start having control.

00:29:21.269 --> 00:29:29.862
Cognitive behavioral therapy for anybody unfamiliar, but I think it puts you in a pretty solid position to take you on.

00:29:29.862 --> 00:29:49.065
You know it's like, well, what's the analogy, I don't know, neo with the spoon in the matrix, or that moment when you know Captain Marvel takes down the whole system and frees herself, or you know whatever, that point is where you start to reconcile with yourself.

00:29:49.065 --> 00:30:05.017
That's, that's scary, and I think it's overwhelming and depressing and you start to second guess everything, like I this isn't the problem Like I don't feel these issues.

00:30:05.017 --> 00:30:07.037
I don't have these problems.

00:30:07.037 --> 00:30:10.599
Those people do, because you can see they have problems.

00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:16.061
But a lot of those issues it's easy not to vocalize.

00:30:16.061 --> 00:30:22.920
In my case it was questions I didn't think to ask because I was ignorant to a lot of these topics and a lot of these issues.

00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:34.378
But then it was also answers I couldn't remember to provide because it was just a different day and I had whatever my own issues were to go through and I just couldn't remember, you know.

00:30:34.378 --> 00:30:40.103
And so to go in on one day and talk to somebody and say, well, is there anything you want to discuss?

00:30:40.103 --> 00:30:42.355
You feel like you're going to harm yourself or somebody else.

00:30:42.355 --> 00:30:43.857
No, I feel pretty good.

00:30:43.857 --> 00:30:46.672
Actually, I'm going to probably stop at Burger King on the way home.

00:30:46.672 --> 00:30:49.818
I'm in a pretty good spot right now.

00:30:49.818 --> 00:30:52.163
Good, and then the box is checked.

00:30:52.163 --> 00:31:24.142
Or I went to behavioral health for six months and had, you know, regular meetings and as I was sitting there talking with this guy, we talked about a lot actually, and he helped me realize that this podcast can be my own therapy, to talk to people and work through stuff, and it sounds like yours, in your case as well, and so as a medium for, let's call it, cognitive behavioral therapy, podcasting became pivotal, at least for me.

00:31:24.142 --> 00:31:34.113
But within the entire sort of, I guess, industry of mental health, I just didn't know any better and it felt weird.

00:31:34.113 --> 00:31:38.911
I don't feel like I want to hurt people, but yeah, there's days I want to punch that guy in the face.

00:31:38.911 --> 00:31:39.570
Does that count?

00:31:39.570 --> 00:31:40.211
I don't know.

00:31:40.211 --> 00:31:41.211
Am I overthinking this?

00:31:41.211 --> 00:31:41.932
I don't think so.

00:31:41.932 --> 00:31:44.114
I got told so.

00:31:44.134 --> 00:31:56.221
A Navy expression is nuking a situation which you know for nuclear submariners super detail oriented, ensuring every.

00:31:56.221 --> 00:31:58.223
You know 10th of a micron or whatever.

00:31:58.223 --> 00:31:59.124
I'm making up phrases matters.

00:31:59.124 --> 00:31:59.884
Know a tenth of a micron or whatever.

00:31:59.884 --> 00:32:00.704
I'm making up phrases matters.

00:32:00.704 --> 00:32:02.967
Nuking the situation is overthinking.

00:32:02.967 --> 00:32:13.349
Essentially, it's contributing to situations like Simone Biles in the Olympics when she took the event off and you just forget how to do things that you've been pretty proficient at.

00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:21.142
Those types of things were happening in my case and I got told stress-induced amnesia is normal.

00:32:21.142 --> 00:32:25.874
I said okay and maybe it is right.

00:32:25.874 --> 00:32:32.195
But if you're only looking at the sample group where it's normal and not the sample group where it's not right, the story here's a story quick.

00:32:32.195 --> 00:32:32.717
I got told.

00:32:33.318 --> 00:32:45.176
He said you've got two twins, both of them born and raised as kids in the same area, let's say New York city, and let's say for whatever number of reasons, they both develop a phobia of snakes.

00:32:45.176 --> 00:32:56.010
Well, when they get older one moves to New Orleans, he gets diagnosed with I don't know what you call it snake phobia or spiders, I know what that.

00:32:56.010 --> 00:32:57.093
Let's say arachnophobia.

00:32:57.093 --> 00:32:57.994
I know that's the word.

00:32:57.994 --> 00:33:03.834
And so he gets diagnosed with arachnophobia because it impacts his daily routine.

00:33:03.834 --> 00:33:12.650
Living in New Orleans, he can't go into certain structures, can't go to certain places with certain people, do certain things, and it actually impacts his quality of life.

00:33:12.650 --> 00:33:29.791
Conversely, the identical twin that still lives in New York goes undiagnosed because there's no impact on his daily routine, despite the fact it's the same sort of impact whenever there is a spider, it's just not a daily disturbance, and so the threshold is.

00:33:29.832 --> 00:33:34.823
It was explained to me in the uh APA's DSM-5 manual.

00:33:34.823 --> 00:33:39.737
We read through the pages and he said here's the thing, man, this doesn't impact your daily routine.

00:33:39.737 --> 00:33:52.474
I said, just because everybody's forgetful doesn't mean there's no impact, though this isn't who I was before this started and this is who I've become now, which to me means there was a catalyst in the middle and for a few different other reasons.

00:33:52.474 --> 00:34:03.200
And he said well, that may be the case, but who you are now, where you're at now, I can't in good conscience right that there's an impact on your daily routine and that's the threshold and you haven't met it.

00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:12.277
And so here we are, and now there's issues, and so you know nothing against the DOD or or the Navy.

00:34:12.418 --> 00:34:13.800
But his defense was?

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.490
It looks like you're just nuking the problem.

00:34:15.490 --> 00:34:19.340
Maybe you should just try to take stuff at face value and stop overthinking.

00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:25.952
And I said well, don't ask me.

00:34:25.952 --> 00:34:27.617
If I want to hurt people anymore then, because I don't know how to answer that.

00:34:27.617 --> 00:34:29.565
Don't ask me if I want to hurt myself, because I don't know what that means.

00:34:29.585 --> 00:34:30.791
Do I see more value in me not being here?

00:34:30.791 --> 00:34:33.577
No, because I don't know what that looks like.

00:34:33.577 --> 00:34:36.251
How can I see what life's like outside my perspective?

00:34:36.251 --> 00:34:38.014
That's just a stupid expression to bring up.

00:34:38.014 --> 00:34:42.222
But do I see less value in myself in this moment?

00:34:42.222 --> 00:34:43.344
Yes, absolutely.

00:34:43.344 --> 00:34:44.012
That's why I'm here.

00:34:44.012 --> 00:34:45.717
I don't know what I have to offer.

00:34:45.717 --> 00:34:47.851
I don't know my identity or my role in society.

00:34:47.851 --> 00:34:49.896
I don't know what I have to contribute.

00:34:49.896 --> 00:35:00.036
Like I said, most of my career was in the infantry, so I can, you know, go on long walks with a backpack and I can shoot really well and I can do a bunch of other physical things as necessary.

00:35:00.036 --> 00:35:04.835
I can even do what I'm told and clean my room when I'm told, which is quite the feat today.

00:35:04.835 --> 00:35:11.295
But does that mean I see value in myself and what I have to contribute?

00:35:11.295 --> 00:35:19.936
No, it's pretty low actually, because I don't have any of those answers and I think that's the reality of a lot of people that transition out from.

00:35:20.217 --> 00:35:21.856
You know you retire after 20 years.

00:35:21.856 --> 00:35:23.492
I don't know who I am.

00:35:23.492 --> 00:35:24.353
I don't know what I'm going to do.

00:35:24.353 --> 00:35:31.356
You law enforcement, teachers, civil servants, garbage men 20, 30 year retirement.

00:35:31.356 --> 00:35:36.574
You look at attorneys, you look at you know whatever you work at the DMV.

00:35:36.574 --> 00:35:37.858
You're in billing and coding and medicine.

00:35:37.858 --> 00:35:38.440
It's all the same.

00:35:39.070 --> 00:35:40.755
And then who are you when the kids leave the house?

00:35:40.755 --> 00:35:41.458
You're an empty nester.

00:35:41.458 --> 00:35:42.501
Now Don't know.

00:35:42.501 --> 00:35:48.577
I spent the last 20 years I didn't, but, as an example, I spent the last 20 years raising my kids, looking for them.

00:35:48.577 --> 00:35:49.760
Now they're not here.

00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:50.201
Who am I?

00:35:50.201 --> 00:35:52.717
I don't know, but I guess that's okay.

00:35:52.717 --> 00:35:57.501
Your sense of self-worth and value is probably high.

00:35:57.501 --> 00:35:59.842
I'm sure you're fine and I think that's the difference.

00:35:59.842 --> 00:36:02.724
You know the way people react.

00:36:02.724 --> 00:36:06.391
Physically it's easy to tell when there's a problem if you've got a baseline for that person.

00:36:06.391 --> 00:36:22.856
But mentally those are the things that go through people's heads and so you know, when we're talking about mental health, that's the difference, because there's still symptoms there, and just because everybody's experiencing them doesn't make it less of an issue, it just makes it more common of a disguise, I think.

00:36:23.456 --> 00:36:34.621
And I think that's the thing too, and I think it ties with our physical health too, because pelvic floors so men and women have pelvic floors Pelvic floor health is something that is not talked about and should be.

00:36:34.762 --> 00:36:52.036
When you look at military statistics, specifically when it comes to Marines and men getting hernias, trauma is tied to the pelvic floor and there are a lot of male Marines who get hernias like an obscene amount where in the civilian sector they are not even sort of getting this amount.

00:36:52.036 --> 00:37:06.422
There is this, I think, within the culture and in general, where we see these symptoms or these things and we are not given the tools to fix it before it becomes a full blown injury.

00:37:06.422 --> 00:37:11.358
When there's these things that we could do beforehand, we know ourselves, we know our bodies, we know our minds.

00:37:11.358 --> 00:37:28.298
So when somebody says, well, this isn't right for me, that should be all it needs to then start providing tools, resources, things that that individual can use before it becomes the breaking point, before it comes the you know the dark place.

00:37:28.298 --> 00:37:37.318
And it's something that I think we just kind of see in our society too, not even just in the Marine Corps, where we're addressing things way too late.

00:37:38.610 --> 00:37:39.431
Alrighty, folks, stay tight.

00:37:39.431 --> 00:37:41.094
We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:37:47.161 --> 00:37:49.885
This message is from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

00:37:49.885 --> 00:38:01.443
The US Vietnam War Commemoration honors the service, valor and sacrifice of those who served during the Vietnam War.

00:38:01.443 --> 00:38:07.561
It also thanks the 7 million living Vietnam veterans and the families of all 10 million who served from 1955 to 1975.

00:38:07.561 --> 00:38:15.480
More than 3 million of the 7 million veterans have been thanked by friends and neighbors in thousands of ceremonies.

00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:17.733
But more must be recognized.

00:38:17.733 --> 00:38:24.755
Help reach Vietnam veterans in your families and neighborhoods, especially those living alone or in care facilities.

00:38:24.755 --> 00:38:30.195
They deserve to know that they've earned the nation's deepest gratitude and humble thanks.

00:38:34.284 --> 00:38:51.726
yeah, com and and like you and I talked about before we started recording, the marine corps in and of itself is a very large ship to try to turn and so it just takes time.

00:38:51.726 --> 00:39:00.594
And, for example, in the force fitness program, talking through a lot of these things spiritual, mental, physical and emotional fitness are the crux of the program.

00:39:00.594 --> 00:39:01.576
That is the point.

00:39:01.576 --> 00:39:15.619
And ultimately, decreasing the amount of musculoskeletal injuries that get claimed, which is probably a smart insurance policy and figuring out how to work around a lot of those things.

00:39:15.619 --> 00:39:22.079
But now you put on 95 pounds that's an approach martial and you walk, you know, three and a half kilometers an hour at an average pace with that Over time.

00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:24.603
If your body's not physically strong enough, there's going to be issues.

00:39:24.603 --> 00:39:25.431
It's just natural.

00:39:25.431 --> 00:39:41.201
And when I got started 14 years ago, I mean we had 150 pound to 200 pound packs, but I couldn't squat 200 pounds, my core wasn't strong enough, and so I ended up with multiple hernias and other issues and things that it caused problems and it was just well.

00:39:41.201 --> 00:39:42.023
You got to get stronger.

00:39:42.023 --> 00:39:43.496
You want to run faster, you run more.

00:39:43.496 --> 00:39:45.536
You want to get stronger, you carry more.

00:39:45.536 --> 00:40:09.684
Yeah, I agree to a certain extent with six, seven years in between, not two weeks, because we're going on a hike at the end of this week and it changes things, you know, and so it's definitely an interesting position to be in as a transitionary point, to try to realize who you are as you're passing through these life experiences, and see what you're bringing with you and what you're doing about it.

00:40:09.684 --> 00:40:12.619
And so this, I guess, is a pretty good point in the conversation.

00:40:12.619 --> 00:40:15.599
It's called developing, character Developing character.

00:40:15.889 --> 00:40:22.842
And so, Tab, it's two questions for you, and I'm curious to see how you've worked through well becoming you.

00:40:22.842 --> 00:40:27.751
And so this first question is starting in the beginning be as vulnerable, open as you want, it's up to you.

00:40:27.751 --> 00:40:36.063
But it's about your value system and what you were raised around, and what types of values, what types of things were you exposed to growing up?

00:40:36.871 --> 00:40:46.501
So I again, like I said earlier, I played a ton of sports growing up gymnastics, volleyball, basketball, cheerleading, swimming track, like you name it.

00:40:46.501 --> 00:40:53.963
I did it and I had a coach in high school.

00:40:53.963 --> 00:40:59.998
I had some phenomenal coaches growing up, but she always said that practice doesn't make perfect, it makes habit.

00:40:59.998 --> 00:41:00.603
But she always said that practice doesn't make perfect, it makes habit.

00:41:00.603 --> 00:41:07.110
And I think that that is one of the best things I have ever heard.

00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:17.197
I have taken that with me my whole life, because you can do something a million times, but if you're doing it the wrong way, it doesn't actually have any value, it may actually hurt you even more.

00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:24.873
And so I think I was very lucky to have developed a lot of leadership skills really young because I played sports.

00:41:24.873 --> 00:41:31.311
I had amazing coaches and I was always a very, very out there, loud.

00:41:31.311 --> 00:41:35.541
You know, like I didn't would not be introverted, complete the opposite of introvert.

00:41:35.541 --> 00:41:48.802
And so I do think sports and being part of those activities it really molded who I am, Even like the trauma I experienced as a kid and remembering it and learning it, it made me who I am.

00:41:48.802 --> 00:41:58.815
So I don't think I would say I'm not glad it happened to me, but at the same time, I know it's like the reason why I am the way I am, and so that's.

00:41:58.936 --> 00:42:03.452
That's been a huge thing and for me, my faith has been something that has very much led me.

00:42:03.452 --> 00:42:09.451
I have always felt like God has put things or opportunities in front of me, like the running for office.

00:42:09.451 --> 00:42:12.358
I had zero aspirations to ever run for office.

00:42:12.358 --> 00:42:21.126
Okay, I do a podcast talking about the organization I had started for women veterans and the next day after that podcast, the host calls me and she was like would you consider?

00:42:21.126 --> 00:42:23.932
Host calls me and she was like would you consider running for office?

00:42:23.932 --> 00:42:26.119
And I was like what are you talking about?

00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:27.101
Yeah.

00:42:27.809 --> 00:42:29.675
Well, the seat is up in your district.

00:42:29.675 --> 00:42:34.351
I mean, you were talking about all of these issues that are literally like issues in your district.

00:42:34.351 --> 00:42:43.686
It's for the state Senate, but you have to decide in two days, and so, on this 45 minute drive home, I'm driving home and I'm like what, what?

00:42:43.686 --> 00:42:46.963
No, like they called me blunt Bartley in the Marine Corps.

00:42:46.963 --> 00:42:49.981
Politics is not for me, that is not what they want.

00:42:51.335 --> 00:42:52.862
And I get home and I talk to my husband.

00:42:52.862 --> 00:42:54.280
I'm like, is this even possible?

00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:58.137
And he's like well, if you want to, yeah, okay, ask my work.

00:42:58.137 --> 00:43:05.336
If I'm able to run for office, yeah, don't use our equipment.

00:43:05.336 --> 00:43:05.677
Well, of course.

00:43:05.677 --> 00:43:07.583
And then it was like why would all of this happen if I wasn't meant to do it?

00:43:07.583 --> 00:43:11.858
And so that has been a huge driving force in me where I believe I have control over my life.

00:43:11.858 --> 00:43:16.860
But also there's moments where there are messages or things being said that it's like I should probably run with.

00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:31.501
This or this is a sign to do something or do that, and so that's been really helpful, I think, in life, because there's been just opportunities and things that have happened when I needed them to and that's helped drive me and make me who I am, and so here's Blunt Bartley.

00:43:33.376 --> 00:43:41.110
Well, so then now, after all those experiences, what are some values you stand behind and try to live by or, you know, teach your kids?

00:43:41.835 --> 00:43:54.978
I think it's so corny, but like honor, courage, commitment, like as simple as that is, like that's, that's really it, and we have to kind of define our own like honor and integrity and things.

00:43:54.978 --> 00:44:01.201
And you may have your personal values and organization you're part of may have others and you have to, like you know, decide which of those to be.

00:44:01.201 --> 00:44:23.101
But I think something that, like I, really live by is being the change I believe in, like challenging perceptions and preconceived notions, and for some reason, I've been given this gift or ability to have hard conversations with people or to be able to get a seat at a table and actually have my voice be heard.

00:44:23.101 --> 00:44:50.271
And so I feel like I kind of take those values and I'm able to use that to be able to tactfully say things or bluntly say things, but because it comes from kind of like those core values of like honor, courage and commitment, that it's able to hold more value or I'm able to be more confident in those things or why I feel a certain way or why I do things.

00:44:51.114 --> 00:45:01.699
And so I think there was this period in my transition where I really struggled because I felt like I had lost myself, because in the Marine Corps I felt like I completely be myself and I didn't think I could in the civilian world.

00:45:01.699 --> 00:45:06.900
I thought I would have to really change myself in the civilian world and I wasn't good with that.

00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:15.384
I didn't want to do that and luckily enough, I didn't experience what the perception of what I made it seem like wasn't the case.

00:45:15.384 --> 00:45:21.195
I was able to be myself and so the more I like, held onto my core values and started following them again.

00:45:21.195 --> 00:45:31.659
That's where, like I am now, where you know, I feel comfortable and I feel confident in that.

00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:32.722
I think that's ultimately what makes for any good.

00:45:32.722 --> 00:45:34.489
I don't want to say a good transition, but, uh, successful transition.

00:45:34.489 --> 00:45:41.697
The extent of materialistic things is going to shift and there's going to be low points and you got to pay rent and now you're out of money until the next chick or whatever.

00:45:41.697 --> 00:45:44.702
Uh, till you get on your feet, right, it is what it is.

00:45:44.702 --> 00:46:06.775
But when it comes to fitness, we call it linear periodization, and the idea is that you incrementally increase over time and then there's a deload, and then you incrementally increase over time and there's a deload, but within each one of those micro cycles or mesocycles, after each deload where you reset and restart, is still higher than where you were originally or in the previous cycle.

00:46:06.835 --> 00:46:15.610
And I think oftentimes we start to look at setbacks as setbacks or failures, as opposed to just time to heal, recover and process.

00:46:15.610 --> 00:46:21.605
But you're ultimately stronger than where you were in the beginning, and it sounds to me like that's exactly what you've accomplished.

00:46:21.605 --> 00:46:27.376
And so, on one hand, congratulations, thank you, you're welcome.

00:46:27.376 --> 00:46:37.181
But on the other hand, it is just about the end of the conversation, and so I think I really only have two more questions for you.

00:46:37.181 --> 00:46:54.239
But of all of these experiences that you've described in this conversation, or at least that you've alluded to in this conversation and that you've lived through and processed, how have these experiences actually?

00:46:54.340 --> 00:46:55.242
impacted your sense of self and self-worth.

00:46:55.242 --> 00:47:21.670
I think that sometimes I'm still very much challenged with it, I think, especially when it comes to and this may sound horrible or not horrible, but like I am having the opportunity to potentially go to the White House and you know, in the Marine Corps I was fit and I'm an athlete, I'm used to being pretty fit my whole life and not saying I loved my body, but at least could very much appreciate that it did all these things for me and feel comfortable.

00:47:21.670 --> 00:47:27.978
And I kind of broke down in the kitchen talking to my husband like I have nothing to wear that I feel comfortable in.

00:47:27.978 --> 00:47:46.759
And so there are still these moments of, I think, what I'm dealing with, like my physical disabilities, that I'm still feeling very challenged physically and how my body is and how it's not doing all the things that I wish it could and look the way that I think it could, and I think that that has an impact on professionally things.

00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:53.518
However, I work at an organization where women don't feel the need to wear makeup.

00:47:54.259 --> 00:47:56.063
Women don't feel the need to dye their hair.

00:47:56.804 --> 00:48:20.427
Women are dressing in clothes that are professional, yes, but they're not wearing heels just to wear heels, because they feel like they have to and then injuring themselves or not being able to walk at the end of the day, and so there's been something with that as well, that it's like OK, and again, because in the Marine Corps I didn't feel the need to wear makeup, I didn't feel the need to do a lot of these things that I thought when I went in the civilian world I would have to do these things.

00:48:21.027 --> 00:48:28.070
But it is still like a challenge and a balancing act of when these opportunities arise that are kind of like outside of my comfort zone sphere.

00:48:28.070 --> 00:48:32.992
Now I hesitate, and that's not something I'm used to in life.

00:48:32.992 --> 00:48:43.141
So there's that part of it where, okay, I'm really comfortable in a lot of these zones, but it's like I'm not consistently out of these zones enough, and so that's something I think I'm still working through.

00:48:43.141 --> 00:48:59.043
But I'm definitely more resilient to it now, after the transition and what has built up, where it's not all consuming, it's the moment, and I can take the moment for what it is, or the hesitant for what it is, instead of it blowing up to this whole thing.

00:48:59.954 --> 00:49:12.706
You know, I think what made Superman relatable as a superhero is not the fact that he could fly, because I'm pretty convinced I can't and it has nothing to do with heat vision, because I've tried.

00:49:12.706 --> 00:49:16.911
I've stared at walls very often over the last few months and nothing has changed.

00:49:16.911 --> 00:49:34.536
Resonance in that character is the fact that he started to recognize his own humanity and that's where he actually started to get his superpower and that's where I find resonance in that type of character.

00:49:34.536 --> 00:49:49.806
And I think if you're able to communicate with other characters not other people and facades and images you're not going to meet everybody's standards because you don't know everybody's standards, so you're already set for failure.

00:49:49.806 --> 00:50:03.059
But I think when we start to recognize some degree of humanity in other people and you know we don't have to look the same, to be going through the same things but there's still a mutual respect.

00:50:03.601 --> 00:50:07.398
For, like me, I'm not going to show up in stripper boots and fishnets.

00:50:07.398 --> 00:50:10.806
This isn't the place and it's just not my style either.

00:50:10.806 --> 00:50:13.902
But if it were, there's still a time and a place right.

00:50:13.902 --> 00:50:20.427
And so there's a certain degree of modesty, a certain degree of respect and civility that I think everybody has to adopt to get along socially.

00:50:20.427 --> 00:50:25.115
But yeah, I think, for the record, I think, whatever you wear, you're going to be fine.

00:50:25.115 --> 00:50:26.581
You just got to feel all right in it.

00:50:26.581 --> 00:50:30.356
So, Tab, I appreciate the opportunity and you coming on the show.

00:50:30.356 --> 00:50:37.221
If anybody wants to reach out to you, check out your podcast, get in touch with you, urge you into running again, whatever applies.

00:50:37.221 --> 00:50:39.326
How do people get in touch with you?

00:50:39.326 --> 00:50:39.815
Where do they go?

00:50:40.456 --> 00:50:43.123
The best way is LinkedIn Tab Bartley.

00:50:43.123 --> 00:50:56.489
I don't know if there's other Tab Bartleys out there, but normally I pop up pretty fast and you can listen to the Oath we Took podcast anywhere that podcasts are streaming or on Mondays on Wreath Across America Radio 5pm every Monday.

00:50:57.456 --> 00:50:58.760
Sweet, All right.

00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:11.286
Well, for anybody new to the show, depending on the player you're streaming this conversation on, you can click see more, you can click show more and in that drop down description of the show notes you'll see links to tabs, social and obviously to our podcast.

00:51:11.286 --> 00:51:16.882
I appreciate the opportunity, I think it was a great conversation and so thank you.

00:51:17.503 --> 00:51:19.246
Thank you so much for having me?

00:51:19.648 --> 00:51:20.469
Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:20.469 --> 00:51:36.463
I'd like to thank everybody for tuning in and listening to this conversation, everybody who's new to the show, everybody who's a continuing listener, and I want to thank you guys for being ambassadors of self-worth and spreading the show and our conversations and our contributors' perspectives with your friends, family and loved ones.

00:51:36.463 --> 00:51:47.521
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00:51:47.521 --> 00:51:49.646
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00:51:49.646 --> 00:51:54.844
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00:51:54.844 --> 00:52:03.679
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00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:07.967
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00:52:07.967 --> 00:52:13.405
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00:52:13.405 --> 00:52:14.976
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00:52:26.891 --> 00:52:33.737
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00:52:33.737 --> 00:52:36.463
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