The Art of Communication and Self-Insight with a Psychologist

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Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves.

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Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging.

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My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people.

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This is why values still hold value.

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This is Transacting Value.

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Once we get outside of that experiential piece, like, well, I feel this way, maybe you can ask a few more questions to yourself about why does this come up?

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You might get a little deeper into the core of your past, your emotions, your emotions, your relationships.

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It kind of really explains in a lot of ways why you do certain things Today on Transacting Value, how many arguments have you been in when somebody has told you you're not even listening to me and you thought to yourself well, wait a minute, I was going to say the same thing.

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See, this particular conversation.

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What we're focused on is instinct, intuition and feelings.

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How do we know, when we've automatically, autonomously, subconsciously hit that line and we just link everything in that particular moment Feels like you figured it out, only to find out you're either extremely right or way off the mark?

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How do we know that that degree of self-awareness is something you can develop?

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More importantly, if it is, how do you do it?

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This particular conversation we're talking with returning contributor Andi Liti.

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Now, he's a psychologist.

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He's made his way all the way through his training over the last two years, since we spoke to him last on the show.

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We're going to hear about his training.

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We're going to hear about how to develop a certain degree of self-awareness in order to help build our identities, build our roles through transitions and also, in certain circumstances, more importantly, build a depth of relationships with couples and with other people.

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So, without further ado, I'm Porter, I'm your host.

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And this is Transacting Value.

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Andi, what's up, dude?

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Hey Josh, without further ado, I'm Porter, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value.

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Andi what's up, dude?

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Hey, josh, good to be here with you.

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Really good seeing you again.

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You too, man, I appreciate the opportunity.

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I know you got a lot going on and you're busy and you're teaching classes and obviously researching on your own accord, plus clients, and you got some other projects in the works.

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I don't know how you're making time to be here, but I appreciate it.

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Well, I definitely say we're all busy in different ways, right?

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I'm sure you know what that looks like yourself too, but again, I really appreciate what you've done with your podcast and the messages you put it out.

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So, coming back and actually doing that, having a conversation again with you, it's my pleasure.

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Yeah, dude, I appreciate it.

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Now, the last time we spoke actually, come to think of it it was a couple of years ago.

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So the last time we spoke you weren't even licensed yet.

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No, still working towards my degree.

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That's over and done with since last August and kind of looking at the future, moving forward, trying to do things, make things happen.

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So, yeah, yeah, doing a few things at the moment, both with therapy and teaching and kind of evals, so kind of doing a bunch of different things.

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Yeah, sweet, Okay.

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So for everybody who's tuning in first of all, Andi and I are talking on a video call.

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It's easier to talk to people face to face and it's 2024.

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So we don't have to be.

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It's a video, but everybody else listening Andi is obviously just getting the audio out of this for right now, so let's just reel it back for a second, Take a couple of minutes, however in-depth you want to be, but who actually are you?

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Because this is the first time some people are hearing you and we've got a lot of different people listening now compared to a couple of years ago.

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So, yeah, who are you?

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What's your background?

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What kinds of things have shaped your perspective?

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Man?

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I'll give a quick spiel about my past and where I'm at at the moment.

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I am from Albania.

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I originally was born in Albania and moved to the States when I was 14.

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My parents got really lucky.

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My mom won the Visa lottery and so we got to come here via that route.

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Extremely lucky to be here.

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I lived in Philadelphia for a while initially and then eventually, after college I moved on to the Marine Corps where we actually met each other during that time frame, did about nine years in the Marine Corps as a linguist and then after that I went back to school to become a psychologist.

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So that's essentially my first almost 35 years of life.

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Just recently going through school, I kind of found my footing in a sense in terms of a career path, what I want to do with the rest of my years on this earth and being a psychologist is a part of that process or part of that journey I would say for myself.

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So at the moment, after graduation I became licensed in Maryland and Virginia.

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I do a lot of individual and couples therapy.

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That is one thing that has changed since we last spoke been training in couples therapy more specifically.

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So I want to make that a niche kind of a thing for myself as I move forward, so do individual couples therapy and do some supervision for other externs and practicum students and also teach part time as an adjunct at the school that I graduated from and that's been pretty amazing.

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I love sharing ideas, thoughts, part of the reason why I like doing this conversation with you and many others.

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I think the best thing we do is kind of be able to do that with each other and kind of gain some better understanding of what we stand and what we're trying to accomplish.

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And that's a lot of things that I do both with my students, my supervisors and especially my clients.

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So I think it speaks to what I appreciate about life.

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The reason why I chose this path is that engaging in this way with others, I believe, produces a lot of benefits.

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Hopefully, and that's the intent kind of make life a little bit better in any way, shape or form that we could find a way through it through dialogue, through understanding, through maybe living our true values essentially and I love the fact that you talk about the values a lot on this program yeah, so when I think about that, I think the rest of my life family, friends, relationships that kind of plays really nicely into that, because at the end of the day, aside from just having a career, you want to make the best of that career that you're on.

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So I always think about that piece in addition to just becoming one thing or another.

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So I think, more recently, as I finished my career path at least the training for it I've kind of come back and thought more about what that means for me personally, and so I've come up with some new ideas, matters the most again at the core, and so that's something uh of a process that I'm uh investigating a bit more deeply.

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At the moment it's still ongoing yeah, I was gonna say it's not gonna end, it is a journey for sure.

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No, yeah, you mentioned couples, though, and I'm curious because there's a lot of well like when your active duty contract ended and then you got into psychology.

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My active duty contract ended a couple months ago.

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I'm in the reserves now.

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I'm a realtor in Florida.

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That's, that's my day job, right, and it took me.

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I don't even know if I could say that I made it to any degree.

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I still find myself using, like infantry jargon that has no place in society.

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Otherwise, you know, like I just I don't know another word for it.

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It's the first thing that comes to mind, and I assume, as a linguist, what was your language or your preference, or whatever?

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well, I learned and even taught Persian Farsi Farsi initially.

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Oh, and obviously Albanian is a native language.

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I'll be into, yeah, okay so yeah, I feel like it's a similar point in context anyways, where you see something you can't think of the word in English, but you know it in another language, right, yeah, and I think the, the Marine Corps infantry is its own sort of dialect of society, uh, namely, because it's all grunts and it's tonal, but it's uh, it's weird for me trying to transition or it has been an adjustment trying to transition and figure out who I am in that process, let alone translate that into either a way to communicate it effectively that somebody else is willing to listen to and learn, or in a way that allows me to understand who another person is.

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And you've been now, you said, gearing your career towards this.

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Towards being a couple of therapists?

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Yeah Well, a couple of therapists.

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Yeah, being a psychologist, a clinician, a therapist?

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Yeah Well, a couple of therapists.

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Yeah, more so than individuals.

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Yeah, right, to move forward, Right.

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So how do you recommend then?

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In your experience or insight or educational background, however, you lack the awareness that you don't fully grasp you because you're in some degree of a transition or degree of ignorance, or whatever.

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How do you work around that in lieu of, or also balancing, working with somebody else?

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well, so I mean taking a, taking a journey down that path for yourself, because it comes with awareness.

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I think you've talked about this before.

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How can we know ourselves better to be able to kind of really communicate effectively in a sense?

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Right, yeah, what that is, that you're trying to say, yeah or uh, send the right message, the right way for a person to receive it, understand it and, um, respond effectively as well.

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So what I'd say, it does come with the first you understand yourself, and that itself might be its own journey.

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A lot of times that I work with my clients or even my students, that is a long process, as you probably realize, even when you think about yourself in that term.

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Right, we all have different paths in life, different chunks of life that look different, that kind of imprint, certain ways of being into yourself, a lingo, for example, a way to communicate that you've had in the grunts, as a grunt in the Marine Corps, versus being where you are at the moment.

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You have to find a way to really fit or kind of mold that message a little differently to fit the new reality.

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One thing I'll say is, when it comes to communicating, that I've done a lot of this with my couples.

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We do a lot of communication training, so I've done a lot of this with my couples.

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We do a lot of communication training, so to speak.

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We talk through how to talk to listen and how to talk to understand and comprehend rather than respond.

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So that comes with pausing, it comes with taking a step back, it comes with slowing down the conversation to clarify and truly get at the core of what is being said.

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So, depending on what context we're talking about, it could be more self-insight, it could be slowing the conversation down, it could be reflecting back and forth about what it is that you're saying versus what they're receiving.

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And, of course, you've got all these different ways that people understand things or receive things.

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As you said, right, we got to really find a way to clearly process it together.

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I try to strive for clarity, at least when I speak right, and so I not always.

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Sometimes my mouth gets ahead of me and you know, life happens.

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But I try to be a little more deliberate when I'm able to.

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And I had a therapist, not to help me transition out of the marine corps, but because the VA said I had to get with a therapist to help transition out of the Marine Corps.

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And so they uh, she told me that because I was speaking so deliberately, she said it was a sign of anxiety.

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I said I'm actually not worried about how you're going to perceive it.

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I'm making sure that it's understood clearly so that I know how to respond.

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And she said that's exactly what anxiety is.

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It's beyond my scope.

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It's like trying to understand the fifth dimension To me.

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I don't know what that means.

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I don't know if it has something to do with string theory and quantum mechanics, but she said that me being deliberate is some way reflective of a degree of anxiety that I've developed by transitioning out of the military.

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Does this ring any bells with you?

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Is there any resonance here?

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Maybe.

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So it would depend on what that came off as and just the fact that they interpreted it as such.

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It doesn't have to be the case, especially if you don't feel that is the truth.

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Again, I could tell you that could be anxiety in different ways.

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When we look at it, that's possible, right?

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Anxiety comes up differently for different folks, like you're not the same as me, I'm not the same as the next person, and so that manifestation of anxiety would look different.

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So I can't tell you if there was anxiety you see what I mean.

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If you feel like it was just a way for you to communicate and that's the end of it, then that's the end of it.

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I'll believe you if you say that.

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If I notice something that shows me something else.

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We're having this conversation in my class right now.

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I'm teaching existential humanistic therapy.

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Oh, I talk about that all the time, exactly.

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So my point is I don't actually Wait, I'm sorry, what is that?

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So a lot of the conversations that we're having is kind of really getting at the core of what the person is saying, like your experience is your experience.

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I cannot speak to that just based on my understanding or my worldview, because it could potentially be wrong, and so you're the expert in your lingo.

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Now try to better understand that piece.

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So if that person thought you had anxiety, they could have probably maybe you guys did this.

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They could have.

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Probably maybe you guys did this like went back and forth trying to make sense of maybe it is an anxious piece of that that's tied into the speaking more effectively or saying more words, potentially, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that right.

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You see what I mean?

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Sure, it's just maybe the way you portray your message.

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You want to do this this way.

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It might just be your way of doing it, okay, so it depends.

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That's what I would say.

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All right, folks, stay tight, we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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This message is from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

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VA disability compensation is open to veterans with a disability rating of 10% or more.

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Veterans may qualify for more than $4,000 a month.

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Learn more at Learn more gov/disability.

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Is this maybe the way you portray your message?

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You want to do this this way?

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It might just be your way of doing it.

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Okay, it depends.

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That's what I would say.

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All right, all right.

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Well, I've also been told because, like I said, I repeatedly try to make I guess, consistently try to make sense of what's being said accurately though, because words mean things right says something that's inaccurate to my assessment of the situation, I'm going to hold them accountable to it and say that's wrong or it doesn't make sense.

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Or here's an example we were in the kitchen the other day and what I heard and I'm pretty sure heard accurately was the dogs haven't eaten yet.

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Pretty straightforward.

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I thought the dogs haven't eaten yet, right?

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So I said, okay, great.

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So I went and put food in the bowls, and then what I get told is you're not listening.

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I said the dogs haven't eaten yet, but it's not time to feed them.

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Now I said look, this isn't something we need to go back and forth about.

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I'm just trying to help because you're busy and I figured this is an opportunity to help.

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You know, I was just trying to be nice and it was just such a trivial thing based on how I perceived what she said.

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And so now it leads me to another question, because you got me thinking and now I'm moving pretty quick.

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All right, do you think that this let's call it a self-reliance on my own subconscious bias or anybody's, doesn't have to be mine, just a reliance.

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That bias?

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Right, I didn't think about it, I just heard what I heard, acted on it.

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Yeah, do you think a reliance on this subconscious bias is that like a I don't know a detrimental instinct or a positive attribute or something?

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Can we trust our instincts?

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I'm glad you brought up that example because it is something so trivial as you called it.

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It it's just a comment.

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You acted, you reacted and you put something into motion.

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Right, because your mind said this is what I generally do I hear a problem, I solve the problem.

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That's it.

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I'm a fixer, yeah.

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It's pretty simple, pretty simple.

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Now, can it be detrimental versus is it beneficial?

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It depends, right, like if you kept doing this and it became an issue.

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I see this with couples like the message that's being sent versus what has been received gets in the way.

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Like, let's say that a partner says makes a comment, and you jump into action to solve the problem.

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I don't know if you've heard this.

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Sometimes they just want you to listen.

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You've heard that?

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It's not about the nail.

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It's not about fixing the problem.

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It's just like I need you to be here and listen to me versus I want you to fix this for me.

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Both could exist right At a certain level or at a certain time.

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You should understand what is needed at that point.

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That's when it can potentially become problematic by itself.

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We'll have instincts, we'll have biases, we'll have ways of operating in the world that makes it easier to do things Otherwise.

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Having to consciously act on every single step of the day that we go through is pretty crazy to think about.

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Right, it takes a lot of energy, so we need to move instinctively in a lot of these actions that we take throughout the day.

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So, by itself, no, it's not a bad thing.

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When it becomes a bad thing is when we are told this is not what is being asked or this is not probably the right move, and we'll continue to do the same thing based on our essentially our um makeup, our genes that kind of got us to this point, our evolution up to that point that led us to do this thing in this way, essentially our uh training as animals that we are right.

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So I can't say detrimental unless it presents a problem, but I think we need it, as any other being needs it, to make living a little easier.

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You need those instincts kind of really operate in the subconscious more often than not is that human conditioning just?

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pattern recognition and action based on the condition.

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Okay, absolutely all right.

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And so then I have a working theory for you.

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I'm gonna put this up to you, you teach it to your kids if you like, and then you can fail them if you don't like it.

00:17:30.567 --> 00:17:33.894
That's fine, but you know, uh, this is indirect influence.

00:17:33.894 --> 00:17:34.905
So, okay, here's my thought.

00:17:34.905 --> 00:17:37.035
And again, this is based on the infantry.

00:17:37.035 --> 00:17:42.270
Okay, so I'm not prescribing this to everybody, I'm not saying it applies to everybody in the military or any of that stuff.

00:17:42.270 --> 00:17:46.398
It's just my experience and observation in the military.

00:17:46.558 --> 00:18:05.459
Okay, 17, 18 years old individuals, generally speaking, leave their parents' house, everything they've known comfort, shelter, security, whatever to venture off into their own and then get told for the next arguably four to eight years what to do, how to respond, how to think or, more importantly, how not to critically think.

00:18:06.026 --> 00:18:07.070
Don't evaluate, just do.

00:18:07.070 --> 00:18:16.916
And then let's call it eight years later, get out and have marital problems Because, like in my case, like I did, I got divorced because I didn't know how to question anything.

00:18:16.916 --> 00:18:23.393
I was like this is I'm seeing what's happening, I'm responding as I feel is appropriate and then finding out my decisions are wrong.

00:18:23.393 --> 00:18:25.652
I'm like, well, I don't know how to communicate differently.

00:18:25.652 --> 00:18:41.492
I'm trying to fix the problem Because all I know is in kinetic environments or humanitarian aid type environments there's an instant willing obedience to orders with lack of critical thought, at least until that strategic NCO initiative came up a few years ago.

00:18:41.492 --> 00:18:50.050
But it made it very difficult for me to transition into a I don't want to say just relationships, but to transition into a relationship with somebody.

00:18:50.050 --> 00:18:53.157
That wasn't just in my own head, right, yeah, yeah.

00:18:53.505 --> 00:18:53.645
That.

00:18:53.685 --> 00:19:00.267
I had to figure out ways to communicate and evaluate a situation critically, but I didn't have the skillset, I didn't have the bandwidth, I didn't have the attention span.

00:19:00.267 --> 00:19:05.133
I didn't have the bandwidth, I didn't have the attention span, I didn't have the development or maturity required to do that.

00:19:05.133 --> 00:19:17.046
So my theory is all infantrymen on their first tours or first contracts experience a similar phenomenon, where they have to relearn how to communicate and think critically.

00:19:17.046 --> 00:19:25.086
Do you think that's accurate with most teenagers or early 20s developmental individuals to learn how to do that?

00:19:25.086 --> 00:19:29.057
And secondly, do you think that contributes to a lot of relationship problems?

00:19:29.057 --> 00:19:30.832
Just a lack of maturity and development?

00:19:31.555 --> 00:19:43.614
I would say more or less I agree with the, the premise that you're setting up, because, again, I went into the military a little later I was 23 when I joined, so I had an opportunity to kind of really see the world a little differently before coming in.

00:19:43.614 --> 00:19:48.253
But somebody that kind of comes in at 17, 18 may not have had the same opportunity.

00:19:48.253 --> 00:19:50.201
But so I'll speak generally speaking.

00:19:50.201 --> 00:20:07.635
I'd say yes, the nature of the work let's say infantry does, or even anybody in the military, the expectations that are kind of put upon them in how to relate to one another or even to what they're being ordered to do, and then the switch that happens after leaving the military lifestyle.

00:20:07.635 --> 00:20:08.606
That's a real thing.

00:20:08.606 --> 00:20:27.376
We've seen it on anecdotal evidence, like we've seen our friends of ours, ourselves, kind of really be in that position where you need some time to transition into a different way of being with folks or what is being asked of you and how do you operate in a different environment that doesn't require the instant obedience of the two orders like you had to for so many years.

00:20:28.105 --> 00:20:30.257
And I've worked with veterans, being a veteran myself.

00:20:30.257 --> 00:20:31.623
I've worked in VA hospitals.

00:20:31.623 --> 00:20:37.547
I've seen veterans from the Vietnam War all the way up to what we've seen in Afghanistan and Iraq in the past 20 years.

00:20:37.547 --> 00:20:50.417
So I've seen those mindsets still kind of maybe problematic at times, and I don't want to paint a negative picture of it because it is just a way of being in the military.

00:20:50.417 --> 00:20:54.155
It does require that kind of mindset and that way of living through their lifestyle.

00:20:54.155 --> 00:20:59.415
But of course civilian sector, different relationships, require a different mode of being.

00:20:59.415 --> 00:21:04.576
Essentially right, as you've seen, now that you're more of a civilian than before, does it get in the way?

00:21:04.576 --> 00:21:05.910
I think it does and it can.

00:21:05.910 --> 00:21:16.645
But at the same time there are ways to kind of really retrain or retrain your brain or your psyche, your mind, yeah, and we have to do that Now.

00:21:17.247 --> 00:21:19.012
First you have to be aware that it is happening, right?

00:21:19.012 --> 00:21:27.474
The first step is like well, I got to get some insight we talked about, make this clear for yourself Where's the problem.

00:21:27.474 --> 00:21:29.515
If it's coming from that and then you take some time to kind of break out of it, that's fine, we understand that.

00:21:29.515 --> 00:21:38.271
I need some more experience with people that move differently, then let's do that and then kind of really retrain your brain, retrain your body to respond a little differently.

00:21:38.271 --> 00:21:39.093
That takes time.

00:21:39.313 --> 00:21:59.083
So I wouldn't expect somebody to come in, let's say, doing eight, ten years in the military, especially infantry, and just be a model citizen that you would expect in that sense, right, they are trained to be a certain way and that much time in a certain setting will affect the way you, you kind of see the world, your worldview, your instinct, instinctual responses.

00:21:59.083 --> 00:22:00.126
That will happen.

00:22:00.126 --> 00:22:25.546
But if you're actually seeing it as potentially problematic, like you want to change something, that's the positive spin you can actually take that and run with it and change maybe the approach, the communication pattern, the way you respond, the way you show up in certain places, and that slowly reshapes the brain, reshapes the behavior and lends you to, uh, to be a bit different in those new spaces.

00:22:26.207 --> 00:22:40.371
So I don't see it as a bad thing, but it is influential quite a bit, I'd say yeah, there's a lot of tendency I've heard from guys I've stayed in touch with to get back into similar situations, not like a stockholm kind of ism.

00:22:40.371 --> 00:22:44.269
But you know, they get out, they become cops or they become firefighters.

00:22:44.451 --> 00:22:48.645
Yeah, yeah what the uh, the nature of work that they get into is the nature of work.

00:22:48.665 --> 00:22:56.068
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly do you think it's predicated on that sort of uh, I'm not feeling the same way.

00:22:56.068 --> 00:22:57.032
It feels uncomfortable.

00:22:57.032 --> 00:23:00.586
Let me find some comfort, similarity, whatever, to assimilate better.

00:23:00.586 --> 00:23:02.971
Or is it just I always wanted to be a cop?

00:23:02.971 --> 00:23:04.557
You know what are your thoughts.

00:23:05.405 --> 00:23:06.590
I've had a couple of thoughts about this.

00:23:06.590 --> 00:23:10.476
It could be part of that partially that idea that I know how to do this.

00:23:10.476 --> 00:23:13.733
Let me kind of really continue this being in this kind of setting.

00:23:13.733 --> 00:23:32.385
Yeah, I've heard this is again anecdotal, I don't know what to actually, if there's any data about this, but anecdotally speaking, I've seen people that like the camaraderie and the nature of the work, like I want to be in the security forces, I want to enforce laws, I want to be in a, in a position where I can actually dictate how things are done, more structured.

00:23:32.807 --> 00:23:44.692
So I've seen those pieces that are similar to the military structure translated so yeah, to me that's another piece that I don't know how big of a piece of the pie it is, so the example that you gave that could be a part of it.

00:23:44.692 --> 00:23:49.396
I think it is Like, I feel like I know this and we like to go with what we know.

00:23:49.396 --> 00:23:52.480
Humans do not like change, and rightfully so.

00:23:52.480 --> 00:24:01.386
Change is dangerous, so why would you need to change a whole career path, which I just did, and it was a lot, and you're doing it too.

00:24:01.386 --> 00:24:02.107
It comes with a lot of unknowns.

00:24:02.107 --> 00:24:03.087
Uncertainty is not good.

00:24:03.087 --> 00:24:05.170
You want to maintain the status quo.

00:24:05.170 --> 00:24:16.837
Because we're not maintaining it, it's easier to understand it, it's easier to move through it and it makes it more bearable and less risky.

00:24:17.438 --> 00:24:20.900
Okay, yeah, okay.

00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:23.821
Well, I think you talked about awareness earlier.

00:24:23.821 --> 00:24:34.233
In order to gain awareness that you're in some sort of what's an expression hot water, thin ice or any other sort of contrasting expression there it has to be experiential.

00:24:34.233 --> 00:24:42.228
You got to know what it feels like, to know where you feel uncomfortable or how you feel when something is dangerous or threatening to your livelihood or existence or whatever it is.

00:24:42.228 --> 00:24:54.673
And I think if you don't on some sort of depth or level of existence, I guess you just dig in and you just keep going until you don't realize the damage.

00:24:54.673 --> 00:24:56.709
Maybe is done right, like.

00:24:56.749 --> 00:25:00.875
I know people now and then not all of them were veterans, mind you, but I know people now.

00:25:00.875 --> 00:25:03.351
They're basically just shells of the people they used to be.

00:25:03.351 --> 00:25:20.336
They can communicate I'm not saying their brain did Like they can communicate and they're still there, but they don't really have opinions or depth of communication or you know, it's all just sort of small talk and they're just going through life and they're jellyfish in their own societies.

00:25:20.336 --> 00:25:40.865
And I think that maybe lacking that awareness or lacking conversations like this to become aware of different experiences and perspectives and whatever maybe contributes to some of those feelings or isolation or futility or loneliness, yeah, All righty folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:25:42.935 --> 00:25:43.436
All righty folks.

00:25:43.436 --> 00:25:52.825
If you're looking for more perspective and more podcast, you can check out Transacting Value Podcast on Wreaths Across America America Radio, Listen in on iHeartRadio Odyssey and TuneIn.

00:25:52.825 --> 00:26:11.327
I think that maybe lacking that awareness or lacking conversations like this to become aware of different experiences and perspectives and whatever maybe contributes to some of those feelings or isolation, or futility or or loneliness, do you think that might be the case?

00:26:11.910 --> 00:26:18.339
so I'm a little and I usually look at many perspectives and I've thought about this quite a bit in the past couple years.

00:26:18.339 --> 00:26:22.678
What matters for the person like that personally just described?

00:26:22.678 --> 00:26:27.163
They might be quite content and happy with the lack of awareness.

00:26:27.163 --> 00:26:29.577
I'm not saying that as a negative.

00:26:29.577 --> 00:26:34.375
That can actually be exactly what they ascribe to be and what they would wish to be.

00:26:34.375 --> 00:26:38.685
There's a quote that I sometimes give to my clients and I've used it in the past.

00:26:38.685 --> 00:26:42.079
You know the famous, I think.

00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.744
Therefore, I am yeah, who's that?

00:26:44.744 --> 00:26:45.125
Oscar.

00:26:45.125 --> 00:26:45.926
Wilde or somebody.

00:26:46.528 --> 00:26:49.500
No, no, this is, I think, descartes.

00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.080
Oh yeah.

00:26:50.161 --> 00:26:51.163
Might be one of the philosophers.

00:26:51.483 --> 00:27:00.625
Yeah, might be Descartes, might be somebody else, I can't remember right now, but I think therefore I am kind of really brings the fact that I could, could think so I exist, the kind of framework.

00:27:00.625 --> 00:27:03.309
But I read a book a few years back.

00:27:03.309 --> 00:27:18.720
It was, uh, the Tao, like the Taoism, Tao of Pooh, like Winnie the Pooh, okay, really, really cool book ties in like a doubt of philosophical concepts to the book and Pooh as a character it's a pretty cool idea okay.

00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.218
But they have a phrase in there which kind of stuck to me, stuck with me and I want to kind of share that with you.

00:27:23.218 --> 00:27:25.884
There's phrase, I think therefore I am.

00:27:25.884 --> 00:27:27.876
He added something else at the end of it.

00:27:27.876 --> 00:27:31.262
He said I think therefore I am confused.

00:27:32.766 --> 00:27:37.544
Now sit with that for a second, all right, because I've used this with many clients.

00:27:37.544 --> 00:27:47.226
They get too caught up in thinking too much or thinking their way through life, usually overanalyzing, kind of really doing too much of a mental work.

00:27:47.226 --> 00:27:49.161
They kind of get lost in it.

00:27:49.161 --> 00:27:56.724
I'm not saying that dialogue or intellectual theorizing or making sense of the world or becoming more aware.

00:27:56.724 --> 00:27:58.618
How much aware do we need to become?

00:27:58.618 --> 00:27:59.582
To what extent?

00:27:59.582 --> 00:28:00.806
That's the idea.

00:28:01.454 --> 00:28:07.678
So when you said that you're describing somebody that maybe is not really pushing for more To me off the bat.

00:28:07.678 --> 00:28:10.045
I don't judge it as anything at that point.

00:28:10.045 --> 00:28:13.183
I need to see them for who they are and if that fits for them.

00:28:13.183 --> 00:28:16.661
If the answer is yes, then I see no problem with it.

00:28:16.661 --> 00:28:17.383
Does that make sense?

00:28:17.383 --> 00:28:20.836
Yeah, yeah, so it depends.

00:28:20.836 --> 00:28:25.519
There's a need for awareness at times If there's something going wrong in somebody's life.

00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:35.729
I would say, if something's lacking, something is going to rise, something doesn't work well, I'd say we'll probably need to instill more awareness to make sure that person could be a better version of themselves.

00:28:35.729 --> 00:28:44.855
If they're happy and they're content, to me there's no problem content.

00:28:44.875 --> 00:28:45.375
To me there's no problem.

00:28:45.375 --> 00:28:48.864
A doctoral, so couldn't it be, I guess, like a comfortable pattern of just self-neglect, and now I'm content?

00:28:48.864 --> 00:28:53.567
Now I don't know how to dig out of this, so I'm just going to make the best of the situation, or where's the line?

00:28:54.430 --> 00:28:55.714
it depends on whom you're asking.

00:28:55.835 --> 00:29:01.596
Right, if that person says I'm stuck and but I want to get out, okay, that's when you tell me what is the intent?

00:29:01.596 --> 00:29:02.521
Is the intent to kind of go through's.

00:29:02.521 --> 00:29:03.306
When you said to me what is the intent?

00:29:03.306 --> 00:29:17.880
Is the intent to kind of go through life, like you said, jellyfish, there's no impact, there's no input into the people around him or her or society, or there's not really much kind of being done, so be it, unless they actually want to make a difference in their life.

00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:27.721
To me it's not a problem until it becomes a problem for that person or people around it.

00:29:27.721 --> 00:29:33.161
Like if that person has a family and they need that person to kind of come out of that jellyfish way of being, then yeah, we could probably work with awareness and get them out of it, because I've seen many people that get into that place.

00:29:33.161 --> 00:29:46.705
They need help, they need assistance, like you said, gain awareness, find out where they're stuck and kind of develop that insight or different behavioral patterns that we talked about earlier, kind of change what their reality looks like potentially.

00:29:47.796 --> 00:29:53.702
Well, how do you I want to get to your matrix piece here in just a second right how do you know the extent and degree of awareness?

00:29:53.702 --> 00:30:02.858
But before I hit that, how do you foster that kind of depth or understanding with somebody that just doesn't want, doesn't want to talk to you?

00:30:02.858 --> 00:30:15.336
It can be your family, maybe not, but like I just don't know the words to use to tell you that I want some help, I'm just good, you know what, I'm fine, and we're just conditioned to bury it.

00:30:15.336 --> 00:30:16.058
You know what I mean.

00:30:16.058 --> 00:30:27.267
And so if you can't ask the right questions and you're not getting accurate answers, there may be an issue, but it's not going to get addressed or resolved so, like you, you asked the same question that I covered today in class.

00:30:27.997 --> 00:30:44.920
we're doing a lot of uh, it's called person-centered therapy by Rogers it's a big clinician in the 80s, 70s, 80s and so we teach a lot of these technique not techniques approach to therapy and a lot of times you said experiential right, you want to think about how a person truly understands themselves.

00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.722
Sure, what we do in this sense, you want to ask a more descriptive question.

00:30:48.722 --> 00:30:56.182
So, if you want to really get a sense of what they're feeling, talk through hopefully they could be expanded upon with their kind of their bodies going through.

00:30:56.182 --> 00:31:06.578
Yeah, when we think about emotions, right, well, if you feel angry, what does that feel?

00:31:06.578 --> 00:31:07.201
What do you feel in your body?

00:31:07.201 --> 00:31:10.515
And then you kind of walk through that kind of find out how does that sit and when does it come up again, for example, in a different situation or context.

00:31:10.515 --> 00:31:19.343
You could use different words, use a question like with how or what, to expand upon the comment that enabled them I'm good, what does good mean?

00:31:19.343 --> 00:31:21.429
Like you talk about what that means for them.

00:31:21.429 --> 00:31:24.137
You kind of expand Instead of asking why are you good?

00:31:24.137 --> 00:31:27.163
We do a lot of things about not asking why.

00:31:27.163 --> 00:31:36.882
In this way of being with somebody else Just kind of describe, describe, describe, clarify it, which I think you do quite well, trying to get at the core of what's happening.

00:31:37.915 --> 00:31:47.519
Now, the problem is not everybody has the words to do so right, and so sometimes you might have to expand, maybe interpret yourself Like I'm seeing this, especially if it's a loved one.

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.188
You could show concern, you could show empathy that maybe pulls them in.

00:31:52.188 --> 00:31:54.240
Potentially there's something that you're worried about.

00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.577
You could display that.

00:31:55.577 --> 00:31:57.644
You could show that worry, that concern for them.

00:31:57.644 --> 00:32:01.125
Like hey, this is, I'm seeing this, I'm a little worried, what do you think?

00:32:01.125 --> 00:32:03.515
And like, hey, this is, I'm seeing this, I'm a little worried, what do you think?

00:32:03.515 --> 00:32:05.244
And that kind of then maybe breaks them out a bit of that.

00:32:05.244 --> 00:32:08.079
You said that shell or protection bubble that they got themselves in.

00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:14.303
It depends on the person, depends on their personality, way of being and whatever the issue is right.

00:32:14.303 --> 00:32:27.240
But I'd say, try to show some compassion, lend a listening ear, try to help them describe a bit more if you want to kind of get them out of it, whatever state of mind they're in, but you understand where they're at.

00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.701
So that's one way to kind of really do it.

00:32:30.155 --> 00:32:36.662
I don't know if that made sense or well, yeah, I mean trying to get somebody to be more descriptive about what they're feeling.

00:32:36.662 --> 00:32:45.798
How they're feeling, why they're feeling, I think can make a huge difference, as teenagers to infantrymen, to midlife crises, to everybody in the middle.

00:32:45.798 --> 00:32:49.313
I think the easier option is not why do I feel this way?

00:32:49.313 --> 00:32:51.317
I don't know, I just do okay.

00:32:51.317 --> 00:32:52.921
Well, what does that?

00:32:52.921 --> 00:32:54.324
What does that feel like?

00:32:54.324 --> 00:32:57.076
Describe what that's like for you in this moment.

00:32:57.076 --> 00:33:01.584
Or you know one of the things that actually we've talked about here a couple times too.

00:33:01.584 --> 00:33:07.815
Or you know one of the things that actually we've talked about here a couple of times too the things that bother me are my problems.

00:33:07.815 --> 00:33:08.688
They're not somebody else's problems.

00:33:08.688 --> 00:33:09.115
They're bothering me.

00:33:09.375 --> 00:33:24.236
How I react may become somebody else's problem, but that's still in my control, and so the triggers that make me angry or frustrated and I'll give credit to the therapist I had, but she said the triggers that I have aren't somebody else's problems.

00:33:24.236 --> 00:33:38.638
So I need to increase my awareness about what's causing me to feel a certain way, and a lot of what she said was descriptive as a prompt to increase my awareness, essentially of whatever was happening.

00:33:38.638 --> 00:33:40.765
And so to the awareness point point.

00:33:40.765 --> 00:33:43.132
You said how aware is too aware.

00:33:43.132 --> 00:34:08.403
Well, before we get to Marcus Aurelian on the point, uh, and I guess, for the sake of time, there's got to be a line right, something that says, on one end of the spectrum I think I see some patterns here I can make sense of in my own behavior, somebody's whatever applies in the setting and scenario, and then on the other end, oh my gosh, I'm reading the matrix right what does that threshold look like, though?

00:34:09.054 --> 00:34:20.820
Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question, Josh, because there is a fine line between us gaining more awareness, as you said, gaining insight into your own way of being and why you maybe react a certain way.

00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:22.217
Why do you feel this way?

00:34:22.217 --> 00:34:36.172
And I think once you answer those basic questions and I say basic because they're a part of you, Like once we get outside of that experiential piece, like well, I feel this way, Maybe you can ask a few more questions to yourself about why does this come up?

00:34:36.172 --> 00:34:42.175
You might get a little deeper into the core of your past, your emotions, your relationships.

00:34:42.175 --> 00:34:48.139
It kind of really explains in a lot of ways why you do certain things, why you behave a certain way, why you think a certain way.

00:34:48.139 --> 00:34:54.184
I think that's worthwhile for most folks to ask those questions to themselves.

00:34:55.025 --> 00:35:13.503
Once we cross that bridge and we get into especially when it comes to meaning or existential questions the unanswerables in a lot of ways, that we don't have a clear, objective answer to, that's when people get lost or they try to expand their knowledge into the point that is actually detrimental to their well-being.

00:35:13.503 --> 00:35:18.280
I think that's when you really have to do a self-check and find out is this actually worthwhile for me to keep asking these questions.

00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:27.018
So do I need to kind of put a lid on this, Like I'm sufficiently happy with what I know about myself.

00:35:27.018 --> 00:35:28.684
Do I need to answer all the questions of the universe right now like seven matrix?

00:35:28.684 --> 00:35:29.246
You could go down that path.

00:35:29.246 --> 00:35:30.431
Is it what you want life to be?

00:35:30.431 --> 00:35:38.438
And that's what I've got, because I've had people, especially younger people, go through this and we've talked about what is the benefit of even doing going through this path.

00:35:38.438 --> 00:35:40.382
How far do you want to take it are?

00:35:40.382 --> 00:35:41.505
Are you in the matrix already?

00:35:41.505 --> 00:35:42.467
You want to come back a bit.

00:35:42.467 --> 00:35:49.083
Is it useful to you, to your life, to your loved ones, to what you want to make life become?

00:35:49.795 --> 00:36:08.141
So I think that varies with each person, but I think what you're pushing for or you're trying to recommend, I think that's pretty useful for anybody to really have an understanding of how they operate, and they could change that, hopefully by knowing what it is that doesn't work or works, and then you could reshape it in ways that makes more sense.

00:36:08.141 --> 00:36:10.686
To me that's a working model.

00:36:10.686 --> 00:36:13.260
It actually fits into your day-to-day.

00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:14.824
It fits into how you create your life.

00:36:14.824 --> 00:36:28.858
When we get into hypotheticals or abstract thinking, you might get lost to the point that you're causing more suffering if you want to call it that to yourself, rather than actually bring yourself out of a bad place and live in a better life for yourself.

00:36:28.858 --> 00:36:30.943
So it is a fine line.

00:36:30.943 --> 00:36:35.239
It's just that person needs to really make that call, and I've done it a couple of times.

00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.186
I've had to pull myself back, and I think I'm better for it.

00:36:38.755 --> 00:36:41.177
You reeling yourself back or the experience in general?

00:36:41.898 --> 00:36:44.061
I'm better for it you reeling yourself back or the experience in general.

00:36:44.061 --> 00:36:49.349
I held back my question, my question and the trying to answer many, many more things that I don't need to answer.

00:36:52.795 --> 00:36:53.739
Yeah, contentment goes a long way.

00:36:53.739 --> 00:36:57.199
I think you're right, a fair degree of understanding helps breed that.

00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:02.889
I don't want to say degree, but that scale of contentment, that feeling or whatever you want to call it.

00:37:02.889 --> 00:37:10.806
And I think after that you've got some maybe a muscle memory, I don't know a subconscious intuition.

00:37:10.806 --> 00:37:20.844
You just know you're there, you know what I mean, you just realize it just feels right that I'm good here, I don't need to press this, and I think that helps.

00:37:20.844 --> 00:37:22.621
That's crazy, crazy.

00:37:22.621 --> 00:37:26.041
I was just thinking the same kind of theme in my mind as you said it.

00:37:26.242 --> 00:37:28.086
That's what would be my next comment.

00:37:28.086 --> 00:37:35.478
I was thinking about each seals, like intuition, why this feels like you're in the right place and you don't need to push any any farther.

00:37:35.478 --> 00:37:49.876
That's what I was thinking as you said it and I felt that uh and this has happened more recently uh to not push an agenda, because he does feel just right, he feels like this is a good spot to exist in and be with, whatever matters to you, right?

00:37:49.876 --> 00:37:51.481
I think I've definitely.

00:37:51.481 --> 00:37:52.103
It feels different.

00:37:52.242 --> 00:38:09.094
As you said, it does feel different all right, folks, stay tight and we'll be right back on transacting value you.

00:38:09.114 --> 00:38:10.378
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gov or talk with your primary care provider.

00:38:59.494 --> 00:39:09.447
This has happened more recently to not push the an agenda, because it does feel just right and it feels like this is a good spot to exist in and be with whatever matters to you.

00:39:09.447 --> 00:39:11.378
Right, I think I've definitely.

00:39:11.378 --> 00:39:11.981
It feels different.

00:39:11.981 --> 00:39:13.606
As you said, it does feel different.

00:39:14.175 --> 00:39:15.121
It absolutely does.

00:39:15.121 --> 00:39:24.023
I mean, and it may not feel like the permanent fix, but I think you put it pretty well it just feels like a good spot to exist for now.

00:39:24.615 --> 00:39:34.601
yeah, yeah, I mean, when it comes to intuition, that's a whole slew of um, generational learning, experiential learning, uh, knowledge.

00:39:34.601 --> 00:39:35.905
There's so much that goes into that.

00:39:35.905 --> 00:39:38.199
It's kind of hard to pinpoint where it's coming from.

00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:54.199
But when, when it comes together, like you said, the body, the mind kind of really it feels the wrong word because it's not even a feeling in the sense of an emotion right, you experience that differently and it's kind of hard to put into words it's like a spiritual moment, you know.

00:39:54.219 --> 00:40:10.940
I mean like you can mentally feel something or emotionally exhibit something, I think, but you can't spiritually feel something I won't speak to spirituality because that means so many different things for different people, but I think I'm getting the sense of what you mean by spiritual.

00:40:11.282 --> 00:40:13.449
It's just understanding the extra dimension.

00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:19.688
Yeah, call it what you want, but it's that, that yeah that's all another conversation we can get into.

00:40:19.768 --> 00:40:20.893
Yeah yeah, all right.

00:40:20.893 --> 00:40:25.402
Well, so saying that for the sake of time, though, yeah, I do have a couple questions for you real quick.

00:40:25.402 --> 00:40:58.947
So we talked a lot about how to identify these things, but my working well theory is that, as people, in any society, any age, demographic, any generation, even our value systems are generally, at least initially, taught to us, or we pick up on it, just by proxemics maybe, and that grounds our decisions and establishes our perspectives and thoughts, and so we talked about this last time.

00:40:58.947 --> 00:41:05.123
But people change and value system change, and so this is a segment of the show called Developing, character Developing.

00:41:05.163 --> 00:41:06.826
Character and I'm curious.

00:41:06.826 --> 00:41:08.409
Two questions.

00:41:08.409 --> 00:41:17.802
My first question maybe it's a recap, maybe it's not you remembered some new stuff, but what were some of the values that you were raised around, brought up around, exposed to when you were a kid?

00:41:18.414 --> 00:41:20.259
So growing up in Albania.

00:41:20.259 --> 00:41:25.759
It was still a communist regime, so the nature of living was a little different at the time.

00:41:25.759 --> 00:41:32.179
For about seven more years, until we got into an open society, so to speak, I think community was a big thing.

00:41:32.179 --> 00:41:35.909
Hard work, family, these things that actually mattered.

00:41:35.909 --> 00:41:44.496
Relationships mattered, being respectful so this was a thing for uh, the way you treat others, or adults specifically.

00:41:44.496 --> 00:42:00.061
Education was important, being active was important, resilience, not giving up those were kind of really key parts of uh, what was kind of really the message that was kind of portrayed yeah, keep working hard, do whatever you can to make it in life.

00:42:00.061 --> 00:42:03.829
Essentially, those were the best things that were being pushed on us.

00:42:04.295 --> 00:42:05.340
Yeah, and not for nothing.

00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:13.222
I mean politically, you know, communist definitions and agendas aside, all of those values sound pretty good.

00:42:13.222 --> 00:42:18.010
It doesn't sound like that's a bad foundation to have as far as a value system goes.

00:42:18.010 --> 00:42:18.512
Not at all.

00:42:18.512 --> 00:42:19.195
All right.

00:42:19.195 --> 00:42:22.385
So then now my second question.

00:42:22.385 --> 00:42:24.010
I guess, what about now?

00:42:24.010 --> 00:42:25.856
Has any of that change shifted?

00:42:25.856 --> 00:42:26.396
Have you added?

00:42:26.998 --> 00:42:30.067
So I do a lot of values work with most of my people that I work with.

00:42:30.067 --> 00:42:38.706
Even recently with my students, we went through meaning and values and what matters to somebody, and I have different ways to do that and I've thought about it myself throughout the years.

00:42:38.706 --> 00:42:42.800
There's some core components that I've realized matter more than others.

00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:47.576
Even becoming a psychologist To me, that mattered a lot more four years ago.

00:42:47.576 --> 00:42:49.242
That is important right now.

00:42:49.242 --> 00:42:56.025
It is to me a professional job, something I could do, that I enjoy, that makes me enough money to live a life that I like to live.

00:42:56.025 --> 00:42:59.782
But it's what is within that that matters the most To me.

00:42:59.842 --> 00:43:19.884
Relationship building and friendships within that not part of it, I would say friendships and relationships is a big part of what I value and that goes across the span from romantic relationships to friendships to family relationships, the idea of connecting with another human being, with other people, and making that a priority.

00:43:19.884 --> 00:43:24.958
I think that I've seen it as a really powerful value that I hold dear to myself.

00:43:24.958 --> 00:43:35.800
So I've tried in the past few years at least with my friendships, to kind of really foster them and make them essentially make them grow and become more important in my life.

00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:40.762
So I want to make sure I keep that active part of my life because I know it matters a lot to me.

00:43:40.762 --> 00:43:49.766
I would say health has been a big one and as you get older, injuries kind of set in the Marine Corps kind of really did a trip on my body.

00:43:49.766 --> 00:44:02.431
So it matters a lot more and it's a big part of what I think I need to always keep at the forefront of what I do Stay healthy physically and mentally to be able to kind of live a good life.

00:44:02.492 --> 00:44:04.759
Essentially, without that I don't think I could live.

00:44:04.759 --> 00:44:09.838
So friendships, physical activity or maybe just health in general two big ones.

00:44:09.838 --> 00:44:12.166
And it used to be career path.

00:44:12.166 --> 00:44:13.349
It's no longer a thing.

00:44:13.349 --> 00:44:16.378
I don't really care much about my job as a job.

00:44:16.378 --> 00:44:28.146
I think it's mostly about the connections and the relationships that I build through that process and psychology does that like've built through that process and psychology does that Like actually being there for people, being there with people engaging ideas, talking through things.

00:44:28.146 --> 00:44:31.081
I realize at the end of the day that's what matters.

00:44:31.081 --> 00:44:34.481
Any job that I could do, it doesn't have to be a psychologist.

00:44:34.481 --> 00:44:38.284
I could do any other job and still be content, I think at this point.

00:44:38.846 --> 00:44:45.603
That's cool, but the experience gave you that degree of awareness which is kind of sweet now to put words in your mouth but yeah.

00:44:45.643 --> 00:44:46.144
So that's cool.

00:44:46.164 --> 00:44:46.405
They did.

00:44:47.157 --> 00:44:48.795
I do this almost every conversation.

00:44:48.795 --> 00:44:53.798
I hear something that makes me think of a quote that I wasn't prepared to give, and then I have no idea who said it.

00:44:53.798 --> 00:45:08.585
Okay, anyways, the point is, the quote was, or is, and I wish I could remember who it was.

00:45:08.585 --> 00:45:15.650
I don't know, but whoever it was, thanks for putting it into the world, and I think there's a certain amount of truth to that.

00:45:15.650 --> 00:45:34.811
You know, you mentioned that your job has become a means to an end, ie deepening relationships, helping you take better stock of yourself and other people, and how you treat those and to whatever degree of triviality or depth you manage them now, or and how you treat those and to whatever degree of triviality or depth you manage them now or prioritize them now.

00:45:34.831 --> 00:45:46.829
Because of it, and, I think, as a platform, even though you've theoretically changed your role in society or I guess you have actually changed your role in society you don't need to lose your identity in the process.

00:45:47.490 --> 00:46:11.326
You seem like you've gained a certain degree of awareness about who you are and who you want to be and how you want to be, but you're still, like you said, the same person valuing hard work and community and friendship and respect that you were then, and I think that's the throughput Well, that's not the right word the through line that makes the biggest difference where values may shift and change.

00:46:11.326 --> 00:46:27.472
But a reliance on a value system doesn't, whether you realize it or not, and, as a result, honing and shaping your character along the way, it becomes a different version of you, but it's still the same features, it's still you know, it's still you, which is pretty cool.

00:46:27.472 --> 00:46:30.027
And so, first off, yeah, congratulations.

00:46:30.027 --> 00:46:35.692
One on your journey, like you brought up in the beginning, but two, just like I said, on that degree of awareness.

00:46:35.692 --> 00:46:42.643
Man, it's such a rare actually I'm willing to bet it's an uncommon experience, but it's a rare thing to talk about.

00:46:43.304 --> 00:46:44.626
Part of the self-awareness.

00:46:44.788 --> 00:46:45.108
Yeah.

00:46:45.108 --> 00:46:52.806
How many conversations have you had with the rest of your gym bros sitting over the flat bench and you're like, hey, dudes, guess what I learned about me today?

00:46:52.806 --> 00:46:53.507
You know what I mean?

00:46:53.507 --> 00:46:55.568
It's not the same, nope, yeah.

00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:56.329
Doesn't happen.

00:46:56.829 --> 00:46:58.050
No, doesn't happen.

00:46:58.050 --> 00:47:18.112
So saying that I've got one more question, I suppose, in closing, for you yeah, all right, insight that you've got and, I guess, depth of awareness that you've developed, how have all of these experiences actually contributed to your own self-worth?

00:47:18.112 --> 00:47:24.367
My self-worth yeah, the way I see myself, sense of self, self-worth, yeah quite a bit, I must say.

00:47:24.809 --> 00:48:08.831
Uh and you kind of alluded to the the stability of some of the values, and maybe they're shaped slightly different throughout one's life and I think the consistency of me being intentional to live my actual life values, I think has shown me quite a bit about myself and really sticking to what I believe to be the right path, for example, or doing the things that mean a lot to me, and consistently doing that I think has helped me really feel safe in who I am, feel safe in what I believe, feel strong about my own convictions, even if they're wrong, I can at least own up to that, understand my inner feelings, understand my behaviors to the point that I don't question why I do things.

00:48:08.831 --> 00:48:10.954
I know exactly why I'm doing things, even though if they're not aligning, I don't question most of my things.

00:48:10.954 --> 00:48:11.556
Most of the point that I don't question why I do things.

00:48:11.556 --> 00:48:13.952
I know exactly why I'm doing things, even though if they're not aligning, I don't question most of my things.

00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.085
Most of the things that I get into, I know exactly where they come from.

00:48:17.085 --> 00:48:18.625
I know even where they're wrong.

00:48:18.625 --> 00:48:23.206
I know why I'm doing it, try to rectify that, hopefully change, and change it for the better.

00:48:23.206 --> 00:48:30.411
But I know quite a bit about who I am and how I operate in this world and to me I don't have any lingering questions, so to speak.

00:48:30.411 --> 00:48:45.487
There's still things to be decided, things that I need to figure out how to move forward, but I'm quite confident in what I believe and what I want and how that looks in my life, and that's kind of really gave me the power to really do everything and anything I want to do.

00:48:45.487 --> 00:48:54.030
I have no doubt that I could do literally anything I want to do Good for you, and that kind of shows at least in my ability to carry things out.

00:48:54.411 --> 00:48:59.771
Yeah, except you know within reason I don't anticipate hiking to 20K ever again.

00:49:01.182 --> 00:49:03.967
Again, I know myself, I know exactly what I can do.

00:49:03.967 --> 00:49:06.144
I don't push it that much.

00:49:06.224 --> 00:49:07.929
Yeah, yeah, all right, man.

00:49:07.929 --> 00:49:15.163
So saying that again, I appreciate your time, your input, your perspective, your vulnerability and just sharing some lessons with us.

00:49:15.163 --> 00:49:25.588
I also I got to say, man, not for nothing, I appreciate you not turning into a teacher in this conversation and being willing to, you know like equally contribute and not do it from a pedestal.

00:49:25.588 --> 00:49:31.811
I think it's easy to get preachy when we talk about things that we know, and it's difficult to stay humble.

00:49:31.811 --> 00:49:39.335
But I got to say one thing that you haven't mentioned is, and consistently has been, your ability to remain humble, and I really do genuinely appreciate that.

00:49:40.094 --> 00:49:40.615
Thanks, man.

00:49:40.615 --> 00:49:43.356
It's been a pleasure, obviously, doing this with you.

00:49:43.356 --> 00:49:45.918
The first time was great, this time around same thing.

00:49:45.918 --> 00:49:49.807
And again the more I learn, the more I know I don't know enough.

00:49:49.807 --> 00:49:51.532
You've heard that phrase before.

00:49:51.532 --> 00:49:53.748
The more we learn, the more we have to learn.

00:49:53.748 --> 00:50:00.686
Essentially, the humility has to be to me, it has to be part of it, otherwise I cannot learn from other folks.

00:50:00.686 --> 00:50:01.849
Right, I don't know.

00:50:01.849 --> 00:50:04.047
I don't know any answers, I know zero answers.

00:50:04.047 --> 00:50:10.768
To me it's just as you said earlier the engagement, the communication, the ability to do this with another human being.

00:50:10.768 --> 00:50:12.833
That's the best thing I could get out of it.

00:50:13.293 --> 00:50:14.114
That's it, that's all I want.

00:50:14.114 --> 00:50:15.882
Rising tides raise all ships.

00:50:15.882 --> 00:50:17.606
They say, whoever they are, I love it.

00:50:17.606 --> 00:50:19.809
Somebody said it they said it.

00:50:19.809 --> 00:50:21.673
I love it.

00:50:21.673 --> 00:50:33.619
If anybody wants to get in touch with you or become a client or any of these things, is there an outlet you'd recommend or do you prefer they just reach out to us and we connect you guys somehow what works for you.

00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:35.125
I'll say probably do that.

00:50:35.125 --> 00:50:35.601
I'm not.

00:50:35.601 --> 00:50:36.364
Currently.

00:50:36.364 --> 00:50:38.246
I haven't opened up my own practice yet.

00:50:38.246 --> 00:50:40.106
I'll probably do that sometime at the end of the year.

00:50:40.106 --> 00:50:47.621
I'm still within different positions at the moment, so I don't have an actual professional place that people can contact me at this moment.

00:50:47.621 --> 00:50:48.702
So maybe go through you.

00:50:49.242 --> 00:50:50.925
Yeah, absolutely Also.

00:50:50.925 --> 00:50:56.670
I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but in the right light you look like you could be related to Robert Downey Jr Robert.

00:50:56.690 --> 00:51:00.315
Downey, I've never gotten that before.

00:51:00.315 --> 00:51:01.416
I haven't gotten that before.

00:51:01.416 --> 00:51:01.797
That's you.

00:51:05.967 --> 00:51:07.492
I'm telling you when this ends up on YouTube.

00:51:07.492 --> 00:51:08.655
There's going to be comments on this video.

00:51:08.655 --> 00:51:10.159
Not that it will right away, but when it does.

00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.768
People are going to look at this and they're going to be like absolutely, it's Robert Downey the second or whatever.

00:51:15.788 --> 00:51:16.389
All right, I'll take it.

00:51:16.409 --> 00:51:18.090
Yeah, I absolutely take that anyway.

00:51:18.090 --> 00:51:18.592
Thanks, Josh.

00:51:18.592 --> 00:51:20.655
Yeah, or the third or the fourth, but I appreciate it.

00:51:20.655 --> 00:51:21.556
Dude, this was cool.

00:51:22.141 --> 00:51:36.693
And for everybody else tuning in again, I appreciate you guys listening to our conversation, where we're talking about instincts and intuition and feelings as values, not just as woo-woo, soft topics people don't talk about or don't want to understand.

00:51:36.693 --> 00:51:41.210
It really does carry some merit and really does have some appeal.

00:51:41.210 --> 00:51:58.123
If you guys want to find out more about the show, check out our website, , and if you want to better understand how we're helping to instigate self-worth around the world, you can listen in on Wreaths Across America radio Sundays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

00:51:58.123 --> 00:51:59.666
To Transacting Value.

00:51:59.666 --> 00:52:02.260
You can read Firewatch Magazine at firewatchmagazine.

00:52:02.260 --> 00:52:06.311
com and subscribe online or subscribe to the Print Magazine.

00:52:06.351 --> 00:52:23.041
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00:52:23.041 --> 00:52:25.931
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00:52:25.931 --> 00:52:36.132
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00:52:36.132 --> 00:52:42.070
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00:52:42.070 --> 00:52:42.856
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00:52:42.856 --> 00:52:43.480
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00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:50.952
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00:52:50.952 --> 00:52:54.208
Until next time, that was Transacting Value.