Skydiving as a Path to Transformation and Resilience with Ross Mitchell

Transcript

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The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience.

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Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity.

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My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character.

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This is why values still hold value.

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This is Transacting Value.

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You can walk away.

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It's just are you willing to part ways with an identity that might be behind you at this point and you're kind of clinging on to?

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If you walk away, there are other opportunities out there.

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Today on Transacting Value.

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Who are you and how do you come across to people?

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How well does it match up to your expectations?

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More importantly, and sometimes most importantly, how accurate is it?

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Today's conversation we're talking to the president of Leaps of Hope, a nonprofit out of Utah.

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All about his experiences, what that means and what he's done about it.

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I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and from SDYT Media, this is Transacting Value, ross.

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What's up, man?

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How are you doing, brother?

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I'm good.

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I'm good, I'm glad you made it out.

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It's been, I think, a long time coming now, give or take a couple of years.

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Maybe we've been talking about this potentially.

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Oh yeah, yeah.

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So I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate you flying out here and making the trip, but there's a lot of stuff I think we need to catch up on.

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Uh, the complexity here is that nobody else knows who you are, and so I've got a little bit of an upper hand.

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So let's just set the stage from the beginning, build a little bit of resonance for everybody watching or listening.

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All right, so just take the next couple minutes.

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Man, who are you?

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All right, where are you from?

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Where do you live now?

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What sort of things are shaping your perspective on the world?

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One thank you for having me.

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It's really awesome to be here and Florida's awesome.

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I kind of don't want to go back to Utah, but don't tell my friends that I'm sure they'll see it.

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But my name is Ross Mitchell.

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I'm 29 years old.

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I'm from Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, born and raised, and I live out in Utah now where I own a business.

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We are starting a nonprofit and I am a full-time skydiver at Skydive Utah.

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Sweet Now.

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Is that a statewide or state-run program?

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Skydive Utah.

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No, skydive Utah is a small drop zone, like many of them are throughout the United States.

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It's a United States Parachute Association accredited drop zone out in a little valley called Tuella, utah.

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It's about 30 minutes west of Salt Lake City.

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Oh, okay, there's three drops.

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There's multiple drop zones Skydive Moab and Moab.

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Skydive Ogden a little north of Salt Lake.

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It's got to have the Wasatch a little south of Salt Lake.

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We're a bunch of drop zones all over the country, yeah.

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And when you say drop zone, these are just what airfields.

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Yeah, anywhere you drop your body and you want to land in that zone.

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That's where you're at.

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Yeah.

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Okay, all right, so it.

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You're saying that, though, because I think a lot of that metaphor stands pretty similarly right when you run into these positions, like, for example, for anybody who's new to the show, ross and I were actually in the Marine Corps together a while ago I think it was six, five, six some years ago.

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Eight years ago, sure Eight years ago.

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Okay, all right, and there's a lot of things I think that happened then, like in our case in Marine Corps infantry, but there's a lot of things that happened then that wouldn't happen at, like, you know, your local JCPenney or Boy Scout troop or you know whatever Any other group programs and obviously the role you're filling.

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But I imagine skydivers are such a uniquely tight-knit group it's got to be pretty close.

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You know, in the Marine Corps we used to say there's no one else that will give their life for you, but then steal your pack of cigarettes from you when you're not looking.

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Skydivers are very similar in that way.

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Um, sky skydivers are a uh, a roughneck crew of band of misfits that all kind of you know merge onto this island we call a drop zone and they get together and they bond through the sport of skydiving and there's a lot of similarities between what we do in the jumping uh area and in comparison to the marine corps, if we're getting ready to go on a mission or training, so on, so forth, which was a big lure for me.

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But skydivers do get very close, for for a plethora of reasons you know well, what do you think is the appeal then to that mindset, that psychographic, that kind of environment for you when it comes to working with other people or small teams, or a business.

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One thing that I've noticed about skydivers and I've noticed this in the Marine Corps too, especially the infantry is we do not do moderation right.

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We cannot do three things at 33%.

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We have to do one thing at 120.

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If we find one thing, we have to suck ourselves into it, learn everything about it and do it as best as we can, and at mass.

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That is most skydivers, right?

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They don't do moderation, they love stimulation, right?

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And I've learned that there's reasons for that the more you get to talk to these folks.

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They all come from different walks of life and they all have had a lot of challenges that they've faced.

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It's all relative.

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Not everyone's trauma is the same as the other, but more often than not I've seen that a lot of skydivers come from some type of turmoil in life and then you go to a drop zone and you go do this thing in their first tandem.

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It makes you feel so awesome afterwards.

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You feel so stoked and so powered.

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You're like man, I just did that.

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What's it all about?

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And then you start to get to know these people and you realize, wow, all these folks are just as weird as me and I can kind of let my barriers down and just be myself a little bit.

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And that was the allure for me.

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It was just somewhere you could go and be really good at what you want to do and you can beat on it as hard as you can and progress either as fast or as efficiently as you can.

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But while you're doing it, you're doing it with these people and you start at the same level, just like boot camp.

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You start at the same level and you work your way up with each other and people progress differently and they get better in different areas and you try and move neck and neck with them and it creates a camaraderie, and that camaraderie is something that a lot of people from the military miss especially when they get out.

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I think that's the biggest gap actually, because not everybody wants to keep carrying ammo cans or do whatever airframes or whatever the job was forever In fact.

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A lot of people want to stop sooner.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, but I think that's the biggest gap.

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Right, you get out and you're like, well, maybe from two different fronts On one hand, who I was or who I thought I was in the noise.

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Now that I don't have that sort of chaos and I see sort of that maybe wasn't me, I don't even know who I am anymore, or I had a pretty good handle on it.

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I liked where I was, I liked who I was, but now I don't have the people who I was with, yeah, and now I'm by myself and I think the interesting thing is, in both cases it still is lonely or can be at least in some sort of transient state where you figure it out, if you figure it out.

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Do you think that was something that helped you with, maybe, continuity to figure it out?

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You went straight from the Marine Corps to working with what?

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Us Parachute Association.

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No, no.

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After the Marine Corps I got my EMT.

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When I was in the Marine Corps I did some weekend classes at the local community college.

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I knew I wanted to be a paramedic when I got out I wanted to continue to serve in some way and I went straight to my community college at Allegheny County Community College and I got my associates of paramedicine at that community college in about two years and then I became a paramedic and then I worked full-time as a paramedic while I got my bachelor's degree from the University of Pittsburgh in emergency medicine, and that's what I did.

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What led me to skydiving was a series of events that not only in my personal life, but mainly from my work life as a paramedic, that ended up leading me to burnout life as a paramedic, that ended up leading me to burnout.

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And when it led me to burnout, which I think, I burnt out way faster than some people do.

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I don't know how they do it People who do it 20 years in some of the areas I was working in.

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I look at them and I don't know how they do it.

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But when I look at those folks, they're struggling themselves.

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But, anyway, I had a really gnarly call one night and this was for me, it's always the straw that breaks my back.

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This by no means was like the goriest call that I had and, to be honest, it's not the gore that bothers you.

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You know, this was just a call that kind of set me over the edge and I just kind of lost it that night.

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I got sent home early from that shift, kind of lost it that night.

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I got sent home early from that shift and I kind of just, you know, was a little going through some stuff back at the house from the hours of 4 am all the way till 8 am and then when my wife left for work, when she woke up and left for work, I had no idea what to do and I was like I just want to feel something and I was like, screw it.

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I saw a video of a skydive and I always wanted to do it.

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I watched lots of my friends and lots of people I look up to doing it and I went and I did it and it was at Skydive Pennsylvania, in Grove City, pa, a little north of Pittsburgh, and I got there and I remember getting there and, you would think, leading up to a jump, that you would be very nervous and very like you would have jitters, and most people do, but I felt nothing like.

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I felt so numb at that point, you know, and uh, even getting sued up and getting on the plane, nothing you know, um, but as soon as that door opened, uh, and you feel that rush of wind coming in and it was a small cessna 182 with me and a guy named Kush I kept calling him Ralph for some reason, I don't know why, but Kush, I was attached to him and I get to the door and I'm looking down and all of a sudden I'm feeling things again and I feel fear and excitement and I feel joy.

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You know, I feel a little bit of peace at the same time, because it's just so nice to feel something you know.

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So, as soon as we left that plane man God, it was blissful.

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I mean, there was no spitting feeling in your stomach.

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As soon as you left, you're flying and it was the most amazing feeling ever, because nothing prepares you to do that in life ever, and you're on a mattress of air and you can push against it.

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Man, I was going nuts, I was losing it.

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I was so stoked the entire time and all those feelings that I had in those traumatic situations, either as a medic or growing up the fear, the dilated pupils, the sympathetic nervous system response, you know, the high blood pressure, high heart rate all of that came back in that moment, which was normal for me, I felt.

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That's why I think I kind of feel at peace.

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I think a lot of people feel at peace in that area, you know, when things aren't going good, it's normal for them, and so I felt all that.

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But then as soon as the free fall happened, as soon as the parachute opened up, it was just quiet.

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And you're so overjoyed because I'm alive.

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Oh, I bet You're like firing on every cylinder.

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Every cylinder's going V12 engine like you're ready to go.

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You're running on JP at jet fuel, you're amped up and I just it was so profound and I just knew I was like I'm not thinking about anything and I didn't know I wasn't thinking about anything at the time because I obviously wasn't thinking about it.

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But when I got down I felt so invigorated it was better than any substance I've ever taken.

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I did therapy for years which I still think therapy is extremely important, but it impacted me in more ways than therapy ever did.

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And I got down and I was like I want to go again, I want to go again, but I didn't have the money at the than therapy ever did.

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And I got down and I was like I want to go again, I want to go again, you know, but I didn't have the money at the time and I sat there and I thought about it and I was like how do I do more of this?

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And that's kind of how it started, you know.

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From there I started to make plans and quit my job and, you know, chased it full time, moved out to Utah and started chasing it.

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You know, chased it full time, moved out to Utah and started chasing it.

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All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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She didn't just visit the sick and poor, she moved in with them.

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It wasn't convenient and it wasn't pretty, but they needed help.

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Twelve more then joined this saint of the gutters.

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They were soon followed by over 4,000 other nuns who gave healing care in orphanages, aids hospices and charity centers.

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Mother Teresa couldn't do it all, but she gave her all.

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Compassion is in you.

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Now pass it on From PassItOncom.

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I sat there and I thought about it and I was like, how do I do more of this?

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And that's kind of how it started, you know, from there I started to make plans and quit my job and, you know, chased it full time, moved out to Utah and started chasing it, chasing the dream.

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Yeah, and I mean changed everything.

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Then, wow, there's a lot of things things, too, that we've talked about here on the show.

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For anybody who's interested, you can hear a lot of those conversations as well, but this is a point, I think, that's really just been brought up recently, similarly to what you just described.

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And let me preface this by asking you a question, two of them specifically.

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Do you know who Jeff Foxworthy is?

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Comedian.

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Oh, okay.

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Have you ever heard of a show called Are you Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The host.

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Yeah, oh, you got to be kidding me.

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Okay, yeah, okay, right, okay, now you put a name to the face, all right.

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All right.

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So my son, as of right now, at the time of this recording, especially at the time of this recording especially, he's in fifth grade.

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I am not, as it turned out, smarter than a fifth grader.

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Okay Me neither I'll tell you.

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He and I had a conversation as of right now.

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I think it was a couple weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago, I can't remember exactly but he asked me a question that I'm now about to ask you.

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Okay, you're sitting down, you feel good?

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You're sitting down, you feel good, you're ready to try it.

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I'm ready to go send it.

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Okay.

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What is a non-Newtonian fluid?

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Yeah, that's what happened to me too what you got First guess.

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Don't overthink it.

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I feel like I want to have a seizure right now.

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Yeah, so we were sitting there talking about it and I have no idea why it's named what it's named.

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Isaac Newton, first of all.

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That's as far as I got.

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Okay.

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A Newtonian fluid is something that as more friction is applied ie increased friction it becomes more liquid or more unstable.

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Okay.

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So, for example I don't know think like oil yeah, the more you add friction on a surface and you smear oil on a desk or whatever.

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Or petroleum jelly, okay, it smears and becomes more like a liquid.

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Okay, yeah.

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Or your body temperature it heats up from the friction and starts to melt, becomes more like a liquid.

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Okay, those are Newtonian fluids.

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Okay, all right.

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Non-Newtonian fluids are things where as you increase friction, you increase stability.

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So Okay, in regular, normal everyday life, non-newtonian additives are everywhere.

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You know what ketchup is If you leave it just regular condiment.

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If you leave it out in the bottle, let's say, and it after a while starts to separate, what happens when you shake it.

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It starts to come back together.

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It becomes more stable Friction, more like a solid as you increase friction?

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Yeah, friction brings it together.

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It's a non-Newtonian fluid, okay.

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Jelly Anything, it's a non-Newtonian fluid.

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Okay, jelly Anything, that after a while it sets and separates Milk.

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All the same, these are non-Newtonian fluids.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so rooted in science, not physiology.

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Okay, I didn't write this in a journal.

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I came up with this talking to a fifth grader.

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Okay, non-newtonian fluids and service member, first responder psychographics, mindsets, perspectives are equal.

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So let me put it to you like this the more somebody gets accustomed, naturally or through training, to increased amounts of friction, stress, chaos, you have one of two responses.

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You brought up a sympathetic response earlier, but you basically have one of two responses Figure it out or fall apart.

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Yep, that's it.

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I've seen both happen?

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Yeah Well, in the increasing amounts of chaos and conflict that comes with a war zone, you know, a fog of war or some degree of uncertainty or confusion, complexity, whatever that happens there, or any other stressful environment as a paramedic, whatever Some people find it more comforting and easier to focus, more natural in that environment, more stable in that environment.

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Now, what happens when you remove the chaos, you remove the friction, you separate, you're disjointed and you don't really have any purpose anymore.

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No stability.

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And so I think these non-Newtonian mindsets, these military, psychographics, law enforcement, first responders, fire services, all collectively fill that same category.

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Do you think that people, for example, who are looking to skydive, learning to skydive, want to skydive, or do it professionally or whatever, feel that same category, or is it more based on the adrenaline rush and the sort of addiction or whatever that that causes?

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I'd be careful for me to generalize it, as everybody would be that way, because I've definitely met people who have—so you said non-Newtonian is friction gives stability, but for Newtonian, friction gives instability.

00:19:25.487 --> 00:19:41.778
Essentially, individuals who come from very good backgrounds, good upbringings, haven't met a lot of strife in their upbringings and they really cling to it.

00:19:41.939 --> 00:19:43.903
And I think for a lot of them.

00:19:43.903 --> 00:19:53.436
For them it just might be the thrill of the adrenaline, something that as human beings, we're built to endure.

00:19:53.436 --> 00:19:57.236
That through years and years of evolution, we have that built into us too.

00:19:57.236 --> 00:19:59.795
The sympathetic nervous system, for example.

00:19:59.795 --> 00:20:01.640
The fight or flight response it's built in us.

00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:11.887
Everybody has a way of responding to it, and you said how people sometimes like Newtonian, non-newtonian.

00:20:11.887 --> 00:20:12.529
I've seen both.

00:20:12.529 --> 00:20:16.300
I've seen people crumble and I've seen people rise to the occasion on stressful occasions.

00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:22.542
But there's a good saying experience is something you get shortly after you need it.

00:20:22.542 --> 00:20:23.064
I like that.

00:20:23.064 --> 00:20:25.337
Yeah, it's a great saying and I love that.

00:20:25.337 --> 00:20:32.015
I've seen police officers freeze in the moment because they're new and then I've seen them respond very well in the next few calls.

00:20:32.454 --> 00:20:37.479
Conversely, I've also seen veterans not by military status, but by more experience.

00:20:37.479 --> 00:20:40.840
I've also seen veterans freeze in certain circumstances.

00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:42.582
Right and think about it like this.

00:20:42.582 --> 00:20:43.742
Here's something that's interesting too.

00:20:43.742 --> 00:20:57.253
You work for, let's say, 15 years, 20 years, 10 years, whatever, however long and pick a field first responder, cop, fire, science service member, whatever applies right.

00:20:57.253 --> 00:21:05.818
You work for an extended period of time and you're one of these types of people that thrives in chaos, and you've got some degree of stability in these moments, right, for any number of reasons.

00:21:05.818 --> 00:21:10.980
And then you go home and your wife asks you a question like what do you want for dinner?

00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:13.900
And you're like Jesus, right now I just need some space to myself.

00:21:15.728 --> 00:21:16.671
Are you really that stable?

00:21:16.671 --> 00:21:19.416
Because now, what's the difference?

00:21:19.416 --> 00:21:26.890
There's less friction, maybe, and so, by our metaphor we talked about earlier in fifth grade, science, you know, maybe it's still applicable.

00:21:26.890 --> 00:21:30.556
But like, how adjusted are you actually?

00:21:30.556 --> 00:21:36.144
Because I think the threshold there, the importance there, is, you've got to be able to switch back and forth.

00:21:36.144 --> 00:21:50.460
I think that malleability is the actual important factor that requires the most training, the most time and service to put in your training hours, because I think that's where the detriment is without it.

00:21:51.589 --> 00:21:53.176
You know we talked about moderation.

00:21:53.176 --> 00:21:57.079
Right and balance and moderation might be somewhat synonymous.

00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.461
Maybe I'm sure they're not synonyms, but they can go hand in hand together.

00:22:02.461 --> 00:22:16.143
What I've noticed amongst a lot of first responders is that they don't do moderation either, and when it comes to the compartmentalization side of it, they don't moderate that.

00:22:16.143 --> 00:22:18.317
They compartmentalize and they're good at it.

00:22:18.317 --> 00:22:19.835
But that can be a problem too.

00:22:19.835 --> 00:22:24.721
It's a problem because the trunk can only get so full until it explodes open.

00:22:24.721 --> 00:22:33.323
I've seen this happen time and time again, and usually it doesn't happen where you think it would happen, on a bad call or something like that.

00:22:33.323 --> 00:22:41.099
It happens when you burn oil in a pan at the house in your kitchen which happened to me, like I was noticing when I was back home in Pittsburgh.

00:22:41.369 --> 00:22:49.214
These little things would set me off, and set me off in ways that I never saw myself with that type of anger.

00:22:49.214 --> 00:22:51.814
It bothered me, it reminded me of my father.

00:22:52.174 --> 00:22:53.038
But it is anger though.

00:22:53.178 --> 00:22:55.131
It was anger, absolutely, it was 100% anger.

00:22:55.131 --> 00:23:07.794
And what it was was me compartmentalizing in these situations and calls that I would respond to and realizing now's not the time to get angry, now's not the time to get stressed.

00:23:07.794 --> 00:23:09.198
Now's not the time to get sad.

00:23:09.198 --> 00:23:10.441
I have a job to do.

00:23:10.441 --> 00:23:12.837
I have to tell a loved one some bad news.

00:23:12.837 --> 00:23:14.471
I have to be professional right now.

00:23:14.471 --> 00:23:15.292
I have to tell a loved one some bad news.

00:23:15.292 --> 00:23:16.153
I have to be professional right now.

00:23:16.153 --> 00:23:18.997
I have a guy who's a rapist and he was shot six times and I have to treat him.

00:23:18.997 --> 00:23:25.005
I can't afford to look at him and say, I'm just going to let you bleed out right now, or something like that.

00:23:25.005 --> 00:23:25.746
I have to help him.

00:23:25.746 --> 00:23:33.833
I have to put away all my—it's a very hard thing to do to put your—especially when you're a moral person.

00:23:33.833 --> 00:23:35.354
Most people who go into first response they want to help people.

00:23:35.354 --> 00:23:36.695
They're usually moral folks, usually, you know.

00:23:36.695 --> 00:23:44.766
And when you put aside those morals for so long because you have a job to do, where does all that energy go?

00:23:44.766 --> 00:23:45.326
Yeah.

00:23:46.650 --> 00:23:48.114
It goes somewhere.

00:23:48.114 --> 00:23:50.138
A repressed memory is still a memory in the head.

00:23:50.138 --> 00:24:02.990
You just can't remember it, but it comes out at different points in life depending on the trigger stimulus that you experience, you know.

00:24:02.990 --> 00:24:04.559
So I personally, I tell everybody this, and skydivers are guilty of this too.

00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:05.701
You know, skydiving is inherently dangerous.

00:24:05.701 --> 00:24:11.601
We had 10 deaths in 2023 throughout the entire nation, which is extremely low for what it was in the 60s or 70s, and we're very proud of that.

00:24:12.049 --> 00:24:22.005
But I've had friends who compartmentalize in skydiving and you know, if someone, if one of their good friends, gets hurt and they have thousands of jumps or they die, you can hear it in their voice.

00:24:22.005 --> 00:24:25.292
You can hear them say I told him not to do it.

00:24:25.292 --> 00:24:26.797
You've known this guy for 12 years.

00:24:26.797 --> 00:24:28.180
Yeah, yeah, well, you know.

00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:29.242
I'm like I know what you're doing.

00:24:29.242 --> 00:24:44.865
You're compartmentalizing right now, but then I see those guys later on, you know, at the parking lot or something like that, and see them breaking down because you know someone said something small to them the wrong way throughout the day and it was just enough.

00:24:44.865 --> 00:25:00.184
You have to talk, you have to process these things, because all that energy goes somewhere and it builds up, and it builds up and it builds up until you explode one day All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:17.903
Join us for Transacting Value, where we discuss practical applications of personal values, every Monday at 9am on our website transactingvaluepodcastcom, Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays at noon on wreathsacrossamericaorg slash radio.

00:25:21.974 --> 00:25:30.721
You have to talk, you have to process these things, because all that energy goes somewhere and it builds up, and it builds up, and it builds up, until you explode one day.

00:25:32.213 --> 00:25:35.761
Well, actually it's a lot like what we were saying earlier when we were talking about science.

00:25:35.761 --> 00:25:48.824
You brought it up and I'm pretty sure it was also Isaac Newton I don't know, buddy, you'll have to tell me when we talk later but I'm pretty sure it was also Isaac Newton where he said everything about energy, that it's neither created nor destroyed, it just changes form.

00:25:48.824 --> 00:26:01.449
And so, to the same point and I like what you said about compartmentalization you start putting all these emotions and experiences into these compartments, right on an ambulance, on a fire engine, whatever same thing in a humvee, right, you start putting it in these compartments.

00:26:01.449 --> 00:26:05.381
And what does that do for you in an operation in terms of your efficiency and action?

00:26:05.381 --> 00:26:17.422
Raise it up absolutely, 100, absolutely, and then you put it back where you found it and that's where it stays and it has a place and a name and a role until it doesn't.

00:26:17.422 --> 00:26:19.635
And then it has to go somewhere.

00:26:19.710 --> 00:26:21.778
And so what happens with the gear that you don't use anymore?

00:26:21.778 --> 00:26:26.922
It goes to the lot, somewhere for somebody else to use, to pillage, to sell, to burn, to recycle, to whatever.

00:26:26.922 --> 00:26:33.690
It still goes somewhere, but it's no longer fulfilling the purpose that it did in the beginning.

00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.050
It's no longer fulfilling the purpose that it did in the beginning.

00:26:35.050 --> 00:26:49.679
And I think to the point you brought up about grief or even moderation, that you can't be on a high all the time, and I don't even mean like a heightened mental or emotional state.

00:26:49.679 --> 00:26:51.460
As a high I just mean, not a low.

00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:53.121
You know what I mean.

00:26:53.121 --> 00:26:55.382
So you can't avoid being depressed all the time.

00:26:55.582 --> 00:26:56.942
No, it has to happen.

00:26:56.942 --> 00:26:58.303
Yeah, in some way.

00:26:59.463 --> 00:27:06.488
And I think that's why having some demon slaying enterprise is necessary.

00:27:06.488 --> 00:27:19.378
You have to find your Virgil and go for a walk every so often and just deal with it.

00:27:19.378 --> 00:27:21.266
You know you take your sabbatical, that I don't know 12,000 feet to zero.

00:27:21.266 --> 00:27:22.169
Great, do it If that's what works for you.

00:27:22.169 --> 00:27:24.455
You know, if you got to go somewhere to yell, why not do it?

00:27:24.455 --> 00:27:30.934
Going 180 miles an hour or whatever it is, and and I think those are powerful opportunities.

00:27:30.934 --> 00:27:40.105
But I have to think when you're at that degree of stimulation, there's a crash.

00:27:40.105 --> 00:27:43.439
That takes place, at least in the beginning, if not every time.

00:27:43.439 --> 00:27:44.422
Am I far off the mark?

00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:46.816
No, tomorrow when you jump, you're going to feel it.

00:27:46.816 --> 00:27:55.575
When you get down, you're going to feel like you just sprinted three miles, but you're going to look at your wife and be like whatever you want to do today.

00:27:55.875 --> 00:27:57.560
I don't care, we'll do whatever.

00:27:58.432 --> 00:27:59.457
Which is the nice part of it?

00:27:59.457 --> 00:28:00.532
It levels you, you know.

00:28:00.532 --> 00:28:01.897
Sure but there is a crash.

00:28:02.278 --> 00:28:12.000
Yeah, so I mean it sounds like it almost force feeds an opportunity to process that maybe before you were neglecting even still.

00:28:12.260 --> 00:28:12.501
Yeah.

00:28:12.801 --> 00:28:14.593
Right, so, okay.

00:28:14.593 --> 00:28:21.910
So saying that then it's everything in an equal and opposite reaction, right?

00:28:21.910 --> 00:28:38.511
So as high as you get, is that as low as you go, do you think, in terms of a behavior, an emotion or cognition after a jump, does that, do you think, have the potential to exacerbate any of these compartmentalized feelings?

00:28:38.532 --> 00:28:39.694
I think on the first.

00:28:39.694 --> 00:28:46.856
It's when you have 500 jumps or a lot of jumps, you start to get a little desensitized to some things you know.

00:28:46.856 --> 00:28:52.212
But the highs come from different types of things that happen up there For you.

00:28:52.212 --> 00:28:54.855
Tomorrow you're going to experience that high, you know.

00:28:54.855 --> 00:28:55.895
Things that happen up there For you.

00:28:55.895 --> 00:28:57.397
Tomorrow you're going to experience that high, you know.

00:28:57.397 --> 00:29:06.125
And as far as the proportions of it, yeah, it is the highest you can possibly be right there, but it does insinuate that you are going to have a crash.

00:29:06.145 --> 00:29:17.067
There's been many times and you made me think of it, but there have been many times where I've had great days at the drop zone and I drive home borderline in tears because I'm mellowed out.

00:29:17.067 --> 00:29:19.876
And now I'm thinking about things and I'm happy.

00:29:19.876 --> 00:29:22.242
But now I'm processing things a little bit more.

00:29:22.242 --> 00:29:26.259
I'm thinking about how did I get here, what happened during that time?

00:29:26.259 --> 00:29:28.371
And it all led me to this spot.

00:29:28.371 --> 00:29:30.413
Why did I respond that way?

00:29:30.413 --> 00:29:32.776
How would I respond now?

00:29:33.777 --> 00:29:46.061
Looking back on that, and I think it gives you, instead of a 90-degree sight picture, it gives you more of a 108-degree or even 360-degree sight picture.

00:29:46.061 --> 00:29:53.076
Skydiving it's not a fix, it is definitely a treatment.

00:29:53.076 --> 00:30:04.095
But when you combine these modalities with therapy and you're having this balance in your life and you're able to go to therapy and you're actually able to get a little bit more of a better product out of it.

00:30:04.095 --> 00:30:06.342
I think it overall just benefits everything.

00:30:06.342 --> 00:30:10.595
But, like you said, there needs to be a low point, there needs to be depression.

00:30:10.595 --> 00:30:21.593
I think today there's a large emphasis on happiness in social media today, yeah, and I think it's good.

00:30:21.593 --> 00:30:29.766
But at the same time I think it might give people a skewed reality on how the human psyche works and what should be happening up there.

00:30:29.766 --> 00:30:32.759
You're not supposed to be happy 100% of the time.

00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:34.036
You won't appreciate anything.

00:30:35.111 --> 00:30:37.856
Conversely, seeing other people be happy 100% of the time.

00:30:37.856 --> 00:30:42.694
You need to learn to appreciate some things too, but for the exact same reason.

00:30:42.694 --> 00:30:44.039
Right, it goes both ways.

00:30:44.039 --> 00:31:00.280
And so having opportunities like that whether it's skydiving or whatever it is, I think is a powerful opportunity to have, is a powerful opportunity to have, but sort of an interesting position of authority to give somebody that degree of ownership back.

00:31:00.280 --> 00:31:02.261
You know so many people.

00:31:02.261 --> 00:31:05.505
I talked to a guy a few days ago who went and had breakfast.

00:31:05.505 --> 00:31:09.207
He retired as a registered nurse after 40 years.

00:31:09.207 --> 00:31:14.842
That's a long time and in Pennsylvania, as a matter of fact, long time.

00:31:14.842 --> 00:31:29.084
And in Pennsylvania, as a matter of fact, and as his sort of off ramp out of his nursing career, he decided he was going to go work in emergency and disaster management to sort of temper down the chaos.

00:31:29.084 --> 00:31:30.126
I guess I'm not sure.

00:31:30.335 --> 00:31:32.801
Reduce the complexity incrementally, whatever.

00:31:32.942 --> 00:31:36.300
Yeah, he's titrating, he's attempting to.

00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.703
Yeah, yeah, well so after a couple years he said dude, this is too much.

00:31:39.703 --> 00:31:44.606
I've been hospitalized in the ER five times for stress, I'm just done, and that was it.

00:31:44.606 --> 00:31:46.337
And then he just retired and that was a little while ago.

00:31:46.337 --> 00:31:55.563
So you know, there's all sorts of things, I think, where you try to manage that lack of control or perceived lack of control.

00:31:55.563 --> 00:32:31.608
But even in those environments it's like you said earlier, I don't know how people do it for 20 years Paramedic, for example, which is arguably very similar to being in the military, or law enforcement, or firefight, all the above first responders that gives you the same degree of perspective where I remember, in my first four years, I remember sitting there hearing people that had been in for whatever 12, 15, 17, 25, some odd years all say very similar things that you know I've been doing this for so long.

00:32:31.714 --> 00:32:40.124
I'm on my third wife and you know whatever Good thing, gunny's got alcohol in the office.

00:32:40.124 --> 00:32:43.442
You know whatever, I'm just going to go out and shoot guns this weekend.

00:32:43.442 --> 00:32:44.575
You're like, dude, what are you doing with yourself?

00:32:44.575 --> 00:32:46.983
A little bit of a crude acceptance in it.

00:32:47.023 --> 00:32:51.443
yeah, well it may be an attempt and maybe it was all joking, you know.

00:32:51.483 --> 00:32:52.747
I don't know, I don't.

00:32:52.974 --> 00:32:57.487
I, especially at the time, didn't have like you said, I didn't have insight into those groups.

00:32:57.487 --> 00:33:03.036
I just knew from the bottom of the hierarchy, looking up and hearing the sound waves come down the mountain.

00:33:03.036 --> 00:33:05.000
That's all I knew.

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:06.846
So it seemed to be the reality, right?

00:33:06.846 --> 00:33:07.426
So I didn't want that.

00:33:07.426 --> 00:33:14.806
Then I got there and I was like, nope, this is exactly what people are doing, this is exactly how people are talking.

00:33:14.806 --> 00:33:32.130
You know, and maybe not all, maybe not most, but the ones I came across was fairly accurate Multiple marriages, multiple poor coping strategies and trying to find outlets to process those things in one manner of effect and success or another.

00:33:33.954 --> 00:33:46.836
And so then getting into a position where you are now working with a nonprofit providing a service and an opportunity to instead take people this is at least how I see it to instead take people from.

00:33:46.836 --> 00:33:49.382
This is just how it is in the system.

00:33:49.382 --> 00:33:51.675
Whatever the system is, this is just how it is.

00:33:51.675 --> 00:34:14.262
You just got to suck it up, you just got to deal with it, cope with it and process every one Like, no, you don't, you can walk in and, as maybe trivial or childish as it seems like, you can walk into that room and leave your bad attitude outside, or however you want to phrase it, and go to work Like it is still exactly what you make of it.

00:34:14.262 --> 00:34:21.181
You know, and I don't know that that's as well or widely publicized, but you're creating opportunities to give people that ownership back.

00:34:21.181 --> 00:34:23.126
Yeah, that's huge.

00:34:23.806 --> 00:34:24.548
You can walk away.

00:34:24.548 --> 00:34:30.947
You know, sometimes, like for me, I walked away from a job and I listened to my gut.

00:34:30.947 --> 00:34:32.920
Yeah, but it was an identity crisis.

00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.722
Right, I said my identity is I'm here to serve.

00:34:36.722 --> 00:34:39.342
Yeah, and that's what I want in life.

00:34:39.342 --> 00:34:48.266
I was put here on this earth to make sure that others are okay and my personal entrance and my personal well-being is secondary.

00:34:48.266 --> 00:34:52.867
And this is a common perception amongst first responders in the military.

00:34:52.867 --> 00:34:54.860
You know, you're trained to be that way.

00:34:54.860 --> 00:34:56.840
It's why we're good at the job.

00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:08.302
But that individual who is struggling so much, going into the same job every day, they're not saying anything about it and they're just like this is it until I retire or I die?

00:35:08.302 --> 00:35:10.367
I'm going to get cancer you just accept it.

00:35:10.554 --> 00:35:13.601
You just accept it, right, you can walk away.

00:35:13.601 --> 00:35:23.079
It's just are you willing to part ways with an identity that might be behind you at this point and you're kind of clinging on to If you walk away?

00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:33.588
There are other opportunities out there and there's a lot of beautiful, amazing people out there that are willing to help you, which is a big reason for Leaps of Hope.

00:35:33.588 --> 00:35:40.045
I know what it feels like to feel horrible and that's a big reason why one of the values I live by is kindness.

00:35:40.045 --> 00:35:42.521
I try and be kind to everybody I meet.

00:35:42.581 --> 00:35:44.860
Now, you never know what someone's going through.

00:35:44.860 --> 00:35:51.844
You never know, you have no idea what just happened in that person's day and you just being kind to them for just a couple seconds might make their day.

00:35:51.844 --> 00:35:56.206
It might stop them from doing something drastic when they go home or something like that.

00:35:56.206 --> 00:35:59.581
So kindness is one of them.

00:35:59.581 --> 00:36:09.268
It's a huge value that I really care about a lot and I think the people I surround myself with believe that as well from the friends that I have.

00:36:10.596 --> 00:36:32.920
But with Leaps of Hope, we know people are still out there feeling like this is it and I have nothing left, this is all it is for me, or they feel that they have nowhere to go, they have no other options, no other outlets, and they feel like no one's coming, or they feel that they can't reach out for help In the Marine Corps.

00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:42.762
How would it have gone if a four-time divorced gunny alcoholic went to his leadership and said he was depressed?

00:36:42.762 --> 00:36:45.706
He'd be all right, go back to work.

00:36:45.706 --> 00:36:51.621
Right, he'd be all right, go back to work, or, depending on how vindictive the leadership is, they might try— he doesn to go to work anymore.

00:36:51.875 --> 00:36:52.759
Yeah, you don't have to go to work.

00:36:52.759 --> 00:36:54.063
They might try and get rid of you, Right?

00:36:54.063 --> 00:36:54.536
So it doesn't.

00:36:54.536 --> 00:37:04.947
The Marine Corps doesn't do necessarily a great job of fostering mental well-being, but leaders like you you know help that, which is why I'm thankful guys like you stay in.

00:37:07.135 --> 00:37:09.615
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:37:16.398 --> 00:37:19.161
This message is from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

00:37:19.161 --> 00:37:29.264
Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer-related deaths among veterans, but screening can save lives because lung cancer is most treatable when caught early.

00:37:29.264 --> 00:37:33.706
For eligible veterans, annual lung cancer screening is treatable when caught early.

00:37:33.706 --> 00:37:35.708