Ilene Dillon's Path from Anger to Serenity and Emotional Mastery

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Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves.

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Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging.

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My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people.

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This is why values still hold value.

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This is Transacting Value.

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You can't diagnose something you don't know anything about or you don't know what it is, and that's the position that we're in regarding emotions in general, and anger, which is our most active emotion, also is included in that.

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Today on Transacting Value, talking about how to instigate self-worth.

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Now, thinking about that is great.

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Finding ways to do that is awesome for your family, for your sphere of influence around the world, writ large, or even on deployments, maybe to a foreign country, like was my particular instance.

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What happens, though, when you don't know how to communicate it?

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In instances, for example, when you're under duress, or maybe when you're really angry See this particular conversation we're talking with Ilene Dillon all about what anger can do for you and, in some cases, what learning to communicate through it can do for you, and, in some cases, what learning to communicate through it can do for you as well.

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So, without further ado, my name is Porter, I'm your host, and this is Transacting Value, eileen, how you doing.

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I'm doing great and I'm always happy to talk about anger.

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As you know, when you and I first met, I introduced myself as a recovered angry person.

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So I'm speaking both from my personal experience a lot of personal experience and from being a psychotherapist for over 50 years.

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Now did you find you said a recovering angry person and a psychotherapist for five decades have you found that in being a therapist it's helped you to recover?

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Actually I'm a recovered angry person.

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I want to make that point.

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I finally made it to recovered.

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I'm not recovering anymore.

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Okay, congratulations.

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Yes, I can't deny what I did is I had a traumatic experience in my life.

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My husband of eight years walked out on me and our infant daughter and said he decided he didn't want to be a parent.

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And she was only 10 months old and I did not know that I was angry, but oh my gosh, the amount of anger that started spewing out of me and I was alone with my child and I didn't want this to ruin her life.

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So I went back to my alma mater, where I just finished my master's degree in social welfare, and asked the reference librarians this is pre-internet days to help me find the answers to questions like what makes us angry, what's the purpose of having anger, how does it work, what can we do about it?

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And we looked for about three days and we came up with this much information Zero, because zero.

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Because it turned out that in those days, social scientists didn't look at emotions separate from psychiatric diagnoses, and so they could tell you okay, if you have bipolar disorder, you're likely to get angry about this, or schizophrenia or whatever.

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But they couldn't answer those questions and we still don't do that.

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If you go on the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association websites and write in definition of anger, you will get.

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What I got back when I went was a description of where you can find anger and how it works, not a definition, and that's been one of the problems over the years, and I think it's a big problem for us.

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My husband, who died eight years ago, was a neurosurgeon and he was a wonderful diagnostician.

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You can't diagnose something you don't know anything about or you don't know what it is, and that's the position that we're in regarding emotions in general, and anger, which is our most active emotion, also is included in that, and so my big push has been to identify what the heck is anger, or what the heck are emotions, and my answer is energy, and that helps make working with anger easier, because most of us know about energy.

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We know we can't create it, we can't destroy it.

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It can transform into something else, and therefore the answer with emotions is we have emotions and we have to deal with them, because they're not going away, and in many cases, like with anger, they can create problems for us.

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Well, okay, let me.

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Let me ask this, I guess, first, before we dive well head on into anger why do you care so much?

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I mean, you were angry.

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Why not, like yell into a pillow, get it out of your system, I don't know punch a wall or whatever worked for you?

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You know, in the beginning, whatever your coping mechanism was, get it out of your system and then just move past it.

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Why make a career out of studying anger?

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Well, there's where the psychotherapy comes in.

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What happened is I began to look for answers for myself, and as they worked, I would see that clients would have a similar issue, so I offered them a chance to experiment, and it was working for them as well.

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Experiment and it was working for them as well.

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When COVID hit, I had people that I had worked with for more than 40 years ago look me up for checkups, and one of the interesting things I found out is that the work we had done with emotions up to 40 years before was still in force.

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They were still masters of emotion in their life, and that has encouraged me to tell other people about it, which is part of why I'm here today, because actually, especially repressed anger is totally messing up our lives today and we don't even know it.

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Repressed anger is actually killing people and we don't know it, and so I want to let people know about that and let them know that it's not easy to deal with anger, but it's simple.

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Okay.

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Well, so repressed anger or otherwise, for any length of time, I guess until it pressurizes and comes out in some form or fashion, is a simple fix.

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That's what you're saying.

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No, I'm saying understanding anger and using it.

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The way it's designed to work for us is the way to work with it.

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What you're describing is what we usually do with anger, which is we.

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Almost everybody that I've ever talked to has been taught in one way or another to hold anger inside of them, and it's the worst thing we could do.

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The phrase is that anger poisons the vessel in which it is held.

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All right, so since anger is energy, think of it this way.

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What else is energy?

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Water running in a creek is energy.

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If we dam that water up, the water backs up and it builds in pressure and volume.

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Same with anger.

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If we hold the anger inside of us, it backs up and builds in pressure and power.

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And so when we blow up and release, we're just letting a fraction of what's inside of us out, and usually people bow oh, I feel so terrible about that, I don't want to ever do it again.

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But of course, when they keep on holding the anger in, so it builds up pressure again, so we just go from one explosion to the other.

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Maybe we'll be able to do it less.

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When we talk about managing anger, we're just talking about dealing with it and pushing the parts around.

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I'm talking about anger mastery, about realigning with anger, which is to work with it the way it's designed to work, and it's designed to work as a messenger for us, to help us live better lives.

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What do you mean?

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How is that possible?

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If you said poisoning the vessel right.

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So how is it designed to make us heal?

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Well, it poisons the vessel in which it is held, meaning holding on to it.

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And what does energy need to do it?

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Needs to move sure, okay.

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So when we allow anger's energy to move and use it the way it's designed, it doesn't build up and it's not hurting us okay.

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Well, it's designed to be a messenger, you said.

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Yes, all emotions are designed to be a messenger.

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For what?

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I'll explain that.

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Yeah, please, okay.

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So what has helped me over the years is to come to the notion that our earth is a big, giant school.

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We all come here in order to learn and grow and in this school, the way we learn is by having experiences.

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And when we have experiences, emotions come up.

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We don't own emotions, they're not ours.

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They just come up with our experiences and they come up because our learning that's in the experience is encoded.

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We don't.

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It's not quite clear to us when it first comes through, and each emotion that comes up has a particular message that helps us with the decoding.

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Let me just give you an example with loneliness.

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Most of us think that loneliness results from us not having enough relationships with other people.

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If you think of emotions as energy, we have an energy explanation of loneliness, which is that we feel lonely when we have more energy going out than coming in, or a translation of that is we're not loving ourselves enough.

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So if you feel lonely, instead of putting on your hat and going out and finding somebody to relate to, you can just do something you have a talent for.

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You can even imagine doing something you have a talent for.

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You can do something that you enjoy and the loneliness, the energy of the loneliness, will move and the loneliness will dissipate.

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And anger works the same way and frustration works the same way.

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What about guilt, guilt?

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Okay, perfect.

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What about guilt?

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Yeah, how is that possible?

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Guilt is a form of anger.

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There are two hidden forms of anger.

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One is depression and one is guilt.

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It's defined as guilt that's held inside, that we feel like we don't have a right to express what.

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Okay, we're usually on the horns of a dilemma.

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Suppose you're driving in your car and a dog runs in front of your vehicle.

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Okay.

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And you have a split second to make a decision.

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Either you're going to hit the dog or you're going to wrap yourself around a telephone pole.

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Neither of those decisions are good.

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We don't want to make those, but that's the situation that you're in.

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Suppose you decide to go ahead and kill the dog or take the risk of killing the dog.

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And you do kill the dog, you feel guilty about killing the dog.

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Sure, right, and it comes from.

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I'm angry that I'm in this position where I have to make a decision about two choices where I'm going to lose no matter what I do.

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That's what guilt is all about.

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All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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And it comes from.

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I'm angry that I'm in this position where I have to make a decision about two choices where I'm going to lose no matter what I do.

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That's what guilt is all about.

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Okay, and then being unresolved, or holding ourselves in that sort of holding pattern I guess we'll call it of guilt.

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What do you do about that?

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Then you can't.

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Just I guess I'll go play my favorite accordion today.

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You know, like, how do you?

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What do you do about it?

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It's really difficult to drop guilt.

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Yes, that's what we're told to do is just drop it.

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Well, if you know that it's a form of anger, then you can start taking a look at.

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You know, I'm angry that somebody didn't take care of their dog.

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I'm angry that this area isn't policed better.

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I'm angry that I left my place 10 minutes later and happened to run into this.

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And under anger is hurt.

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I'm hurt that I had to make a decision about killing another creature.

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I really feel sad about that.

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And so you recognize the emotions that are there and express those, and the guilt is allowed to continue moving, so it doesn't build up.

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It's an interesting point you just made.

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I just had this conversation earlier today, actually, not about guilt.

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We were talking about anxiety, specifically, specifically, and there's a lady I was speaking with about, uh, essentially agoraphobia, right, so a fear of large crowds or large gatherings of people of whom you are unfamiliar with, right, exactly, and she's in her 50s or 60s now, and she's been this way as long as she can remember, since she was in her teens, and the more we got to talking not to psychoanalyze and for anybody new to the show, I'm not a well, I'm not a psychotherapist or a social worker or anything.

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I'm just a dude talking to people about being a human, and she had mentioned that as far back as she could remember.

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It always made her nervous to be in large crowds, because she didn't want to get forgotten, she didn't want to go unnoticed, yeah, and, as it turned out, though, she also grew up in a family of 12 kids, 12 other kids, so 13 total plus her parents and it was always a bunch of chaos and what would you call it?

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Hecticness happening, and so, at least in my opinion, right, just listening to her talk, there's some correlation there, and maybe I'm wrong, but you know, as a human identifying, patterns here.

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there could be some correlation, yeah.

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Yeah, and one of the points that came out of our conversation was that, if we're cause I told her about social anxieties or, I guess, generally different anxieties that I have in certain situations and circumstances and that the totality of that anxiety isn't likely the issue.

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The individual instances or nuanced triggers within that anxious ism or quirk is probably what's causing me the bigger issues, not everything in totality, right, and so I'm curious what your thoughts are on this point.

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If it's the triggers within these moments the anger, the guilt, the frustration, the loneliness, the whichever if it's the triggers within these emotions that may be more specifically, are affecting us, then that's within our control to address anyway, right, because we're responsible for our own triggers.

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Do you think?

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Yes, especially if you understand how they work and you know what they're trying to tell you.

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For example, this example that you brought up with the woman.

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Very likely the issue, the emotion that's under all of it, is fear that hasn't been addressed, and so whenever I get into a situation, I'm afraid that I'm going to lose my identity, I'm not going to have essence Right.

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And nobody has worked with that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, but I'm just using it as an example.

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I guess, sure, but the thing is that, since the world is a big, giant school, every time we have experiences.

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If we start looking right away, what is it that may be bothering me?

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What would I have to believe to go through this?

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What would I need to change so that I could address life and be in life differently than this and that's a big part of my message to the world is that, since we're in school, what we haven't been taught to do is start learning from our experiences, and I have a book that I wrote called Emotions in Motion Mastering Life's Built-in Navigation System, and in that book I address 12 different emotions.

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So if anybody there is an electronic version if anybody wants to know the message of 12 different emotions, you can go there.

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So I have an experience.

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I feel guilty, I go okay, I know guilt is a form of anger.

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What am I feeling angry about?

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What could I possibly?

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What are the horns of my dilemma?

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What is it that I have to choose between?

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And once I start examining it, it starts dissipating.

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And if I also go, do I have any hurt for this Pretty soon?

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I've just moved all of that energy through, instead of allowing it to stay choked up inside of me, which most of us do and I certainly did for a long time.

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Yeah.

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I totally get that.

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Now, in a big giant school, eileen, do you view yourself as an interpreter or a teacher or a student?

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How do you see you fitting into this now that you've had all this experiential learning to grow as a human in your own right?

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I think I'm all of those things.

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I started out as a student.

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I'm now 81 years old and I'm still a student.

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You're 81?

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Wow, good for you.

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And I'm still a student and I'm also teaching.

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And at this point I'm really interested in sharing what I've learned, because I see people suffering with emotions and it's not necessary I now.

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You know, anger used to be enormous in my life and it's now this big Right, but I actually don't experience much anger anymore.

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I used to just be a fountain of anger, but I know immediately if I feel frustrated or if my throat this is the center of resentment.

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If my throat starts to choke up so I can't talk or I cough, then I start looking what could I possibly be angry about Now?

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Then we can go behind anger, Josh, and look at what I call the universal cause of anger, what I've identified as the universal cause.

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You know, in kindergarten I know you have a youngish child anyway In kindergarten we learn you should not take the last cookie, you should not butt in line, you should stand in line quietly.

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I call those shoulds.

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You should not, you should, and they always shoulds and should nots always come from outside, but because we develop what I call our emotional landscape.

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We get to know emotions in the first seven years of our lives.

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Our ideas about how things are supposed to operate in the world are formed in those first seven years and they come into our brains in that primitive form of you should do this, you should not do that.

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In that primitive form of you should do this, you should not do that.

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So if I'm in a situation where I feel angry, or frustrated too, the first thing I want to do is well, what do I think should or should not have happened here?

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Right, for example, you're driving down the freeway, another driver cuts in front of you.

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You get angry, a lot of people get angry.

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Well, what do I think should or should not have happened?

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Well, I think that other drivers should not cut in front of me.

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Now, if what I believe the shoulds and should not.

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If that was true, no driver would ever cut in front of me.

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So clearly, the shoulds that I'm holding, the should that that should not happen is incorrect.

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In reality, I have a mistaken belief, a mistaken expectation, and that's what anger is all about.

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Anger is trying to show us where we have mistaken ideas about how the world operates.

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So we can change, we can update.

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Now, how do you update when you're driving on the freeway?

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I've had fun over the last many years asking people.

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I ask men and women separately what percentage of people driving on the freeway do you think cut other drivers off?

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Well, women will be charitable and say maybe 35 or 40%.

00:21:47.906 --> 00:21:50.634
I've had men tell me 100%.

00:21:50.634 --> 00:22:00.984
Well, if 100% of other drivers are cutting people off and you're getting angry about it, you're getting angry about something that's going to happen no matter what.

00:22:00.984 --> 00:22:09.872
And why do you want to take your time and energy to go through anger when you could just say, oh, you're a part of 100%.

00:22:09.872 --> 00:22:14.191
Or the thing I've learned to say is oh, I forgot, you own the road.

00:22:15.915 --> 00:22:18.342
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:22:20.435 --> 00:22:26.664
Alrighty folks, if you're looking for more perspective and more podcast, you can check out Transacting Value on Reads Across America Radio.

00:22:26.664 --> 00:22:30.305
Listen in on iHeartRadio Odyssey and TuneIn.

00:22:32.076 --> 00:22:40.566
And why do you want to take your time and energy to go through anger when you could just say, oh, you're a part of 100 percent.

00:22:40.566 --> 00:22:44.885
Or the thing I've learned to say is, oh, I forgot, you own the road.

00:22:45.654 --> 00:22:48.683
Yeah, you know it's really well.

00:22:48.683 --> 00:22:50.078
It's funny to me you bring that up.

00:22:50.078 --> 00:22:52.515
I don't know anybody else that listens to this conversation.

00:22:52.515 --> 00:22:54.663
If you're a continuing listener, you're familiar with the show.

00:22:54.663 --> 00:22:58.461
This may not come as a shock to you, but if you're new to the show, maybe it does.

00:22:58.461 --> 00:23:07.404
So I just got off my active duty contract in the Marine Corps a couple months ago in fact and a few years ago I got divorced.

00:23:07.404 --> 00:23:10.805
A few years before that, I got married to the lady I divorced.

00:23:10.805 --> 00:23:31.788
Ok, and here's why that's important, because in that little gap of time when we got married, when we got divorced, we argued a lot, and a lot of what I heard was those arguments were my fault, and a lot of what I heard in my head was a lot of those arguments are obviously not your fault, Josh, and so there was a You've just been validated, haven't you?

00:23:31.914 --> 00:23:34.300
Well, in my own vacuum, it was absolutely yeah.

00:23:34.300 --> 00:23:40.565
But now, in this moment, right, you're saying that these let's call them opportunities for growth?

00:23:40.565 --> 00:23:43.619
Right, when we have these mismanaged expectations?

00:23:43.619 --> 00:24:11.625
I hadn't considered at that point in time me then, you know, a decade ago, or whatever, I didn't consider that anything else, there was any other perspective to any of these arguments, let alone, in the end, the divorce, except for the fact that every time I heard her talk or accuse me of something in any particular moment on the phone, in person, whichever that I knew I was going to hear, okay, here we go again.

00:24:11.625 --> 00:24:12.935
This is already going to be my fault.

00:24:12.935 --> 00:24:25.310
Every time, In fact, I consciously remember hearing in my head, thinking to myself I know, every time I bring something up, I'm going to hear it was my fault and I'm so sick of it every single time.

00:24:25.310 --> 00:24:29.181
And I started getting angrier and angrier and more frustrated and angry in my head.

00:24:29.181 --> 00:24:32.435
This wasn't even happening in reality in that moment.

00:24:32.656 --> 00:24:33.941
I was inside of you.

00:24:33.941 --> 00:24:35.064
It was yeah.

00:24:35.164 --> 00:24:40.221
And I just you made me laugh just now because I said the exact same thing.

00:24:40.221 --> 00:24:42.667
I said every time, 100% of these conversations.

00:24:42.667 --> 00:24:44.839
I'm going to get accused for it and I'm going to get pissed off about it.

00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.224
And well, if it's going to happen every time, what am I mad about?

00:24:48.224 --> 00:24:53.442
The expectation's been met, even if it's true worst case, and if it's not, then it's never that bad.

00:24:54.194 --> 00:24:59.801
And so once you recognize something like that, you just automatically turn it loose.

00:24:59.801 --> 00:25:00.262
Yeah.

00:25:00.262 --> 00:25:06.730
And one of the things that I teach in my anger classes is nobody else can make you angry.

00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:08.355
Ah, I like that.

00:25:08.355 --> 00:25:14.509
The reason for that is that you're getting angry about shoulds that you hold inside of yourself.

00:25:14.509 --> 00:25:27.003
The other person only may remind you of something or they may stimulate you to come into contact with that expectation, but somebody else doesn't make you angry.

00:25:27.003 --> 00:25:28.855
We make our own selves angry.

00:25:29.155 --> 00:25:32.738
Well, it's like in the infantry right we get a rifle.

00:25:32.738 --> 00:25:33.580
There are many like it.

00:25:33.580 --> 00:25:35.586
This one is mine, the Rifleman's Creed, okay.

00:25:35.586 --> 00:25:44.779
And anytime we go to shoot training exercises on the range, whichever, whenever one one of those weapon safety rules, keep your fingers straightened off the trigger until you're ready to fire.

00:25:44.779 --> 00:26:00.400
I think the underlying premise here to the point you're making is that, no matter what the trigger mechanism is, you're the only one with the trigger finger, so just keep it straightened off the trigger and as long as you're aware that that's the case, it's probably going to stay on safe and you'll be okay.

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:02.525
You know, no collateral damage, so to speak.

00:26:03.067 --> 00:26:15.026
Now I have a question for you, because a lot of this obviously, like you said, is experiential and, as I'm assuming, come from one of two places, one firsthand and two secondhand.

00:26:15.026 --> 00:27:05.624
So, as you've been working with people, right, and I think in all of my experiences going around the world, deployments, just growing through life, talking to people on the show or other podcasts a lot of the experiential learning that I've identified that everybody stands on a value system, subconsciously or not, but that everybody stands on a value system to make decisions either in hindsight and learn from them, or in foresight, and hopefully fix a problem before it happens or address something before it becomes an issue role do you see values having, or an awareness of a value system having in managing our emotions at any given point or catalyst, or do you at all?

00:27:05.624 --> 00:27:06.385
You're the scientist.

00:27:06.385 --> 00:27:06.967
What are your thoughts?

00:27:07.715 --> 00:27:13.625
I haven't really thought of it in terms of value system, but values do matter.

00:27:13.625 --> 00:27:19.284
The whole idea of the earth being a giant school actually dictates some of the value.

00:27:19.284 --> 00:27:32.727
If I'm in school, I can either resist learning or I can embrace it, and so one of the values is embrace learning, because it's coming to you all the time is not going to go away.

00:27:32.727 --> 00:27:37.380
What we usually do when something comes to us, we have an experience.

00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:40.226
Let's say you were talking about marriage.

00:27:40.226 --> 00:27:52.462
Many people will marry, have the same marriage two, three different times to a different person, but the marriage itself is the same right, and so we tend to do that.

00:27:52.462 --> 00:28:08.748
We repeat these patterns that we have without ever learning, and what I have discovered over the years with myself and with my clients is when you just turn and learn, you're no longer stuck in those patterns.

00:28:08.748 --> 00:28:10.916
It frees you up immediately.

00:28:10.916 --> 00:28:13.321
The second you learn it, it's gone.

00:28:13.923 --> 00:28:25.109
Well, I think part of that problem is we spend 12 years in school repeating the same patterns without learning, so it's sort of an unfortunate conditioning of the education system, I think, to a certain degree.

00:28:25.375 --> 00:28:27.763
But that's one of the things that's driving me.

00:28:27.763 --> 00:28:28.867
I want people.

00:28:28.867 --> 00:28:31.737
I've been able to teach thousands of people so far.

00:28:31.737 --> 00:28:39.499
I want to reach a whole lot more people to let you know hey, we have been coming at this system incorrectly.

00:28:39.499 --> 00:28:42.502
Whatever brought us into it.

00:28:42.663 --> 00:28:46.890
It's not really working and it's so simple to shift.

00:28:46.890 --> 00:28:48.836
It takes some work.

00:28:48.836 --> 00:28:56.440
The reason it's not easy is because we've built up anger inside of us, and often I certainly was.

00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:06.642
We're terrified of turning it loose because we know it's going to blow up Right, and it does sometimes, right, just like the water behind the dam finds a hole in that dam.

00:29:06.642 --> 00:29:20.005
You've got a lot of destruction going on downstream, right, so that can happen and people do need to have somebody who's neutral to be with them while they release that.

00:29:20.005 --> 00:29:26.359
But once released and once you work in the system, it's simple.

00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:49.728
You know you just go through it, and the more you are not holding on to anger and the more you're working every situation, or as many situations as you can or want to, the fewer situations you have, the less up and down of emotions that you have All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:29:55.816 --> 00:29:58.583
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00:29:58.583 --> 00:30:07.017
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00:30:07.017 --> 00:30:16.244
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00:30:16.244 --> 00:30:24.163
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00:30:24.163 --> 00:30:26.429
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00:30:26.429 --> 00:30:33.407
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00:30:33.407 --> 00:30:38.877
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00:30:38.877 --> 00:30:42.968
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00:30:51.415 --> 00:31:01.515
The more you are not holding on to anger and the more you're working every situation, or as many situations as you can or want to, the you work them.

00:31:01.515 --> 00:31:08.086
The fewer situations you have, the less up and down of emotions that you have.

00:31:08.086 --> 00:31:17.700
The less attachment you have like we were talking about with the drivers on the freeway the less attachment you have to things working out a particular way.

00:31:19.021 --> 00:31:26.381
Okay, well, I well, first off, I totally agree with and respect your position on academic reform.

00:31:26.381 --> 00:31:37.799
I think it's admirable and, whatever extent I can impact that in my life, I think we're going to run very parallel sets of circumstance over however many decades you and I have left individually.

00:31:37.799 --> 00:32:00.362
But in that there's, I think, a lot of maybe it's not that foreign, but in my head it seems like it is a foreign concept and a lot of distance between managing expectations, I think, and the role of a parent to be able to do that for future generations kids, grandkids, whoever that happens to be, let alone ourselves as parents, kids, grandkids, whoever that happens to be, let alone ourselves as parents.

00:32:00.362 --> 00:32:15.415
But now, particularly right, 30 years ago we had books in library time and I'm assuming 50, 60 years ago it was the same circumstance maybe Broadway shows or whatever it was in the moment, phonograph, I don't know.

00:32:15.415 --> 00:32:20.567
Eventually, before then, where you know, we built our imaginations to unrealistic circumstances and standards based on books or whatever the catalyst was.

00:32:20.567 --> 00:32:25.586
And now obviously it happens to be tech or social media or whatever, but it's the same parallel.

00:32:25.586 --> 00:32:37.939
And then we get into reality and we're like whoa, this isn't what I was expecting to happen at all you know, I read about this whatever family that crashed on an island and they survived and they became stronger and everything was great.

00:32:37.939 --> 00:32:44.496
Or why am I hearing about, you know, whatever migrants on the news that are landing on this island and they're all dead.

00:32:44.496 --> 00:32:45.861
How is that even possible?

00:32:45.861 --> 00:32:46.624
What happened?

00:32:47.708 --> 00:33:03.368
Whatever the circumstance, the expectations aren't managed well enough, I think, because the initial baseline is too far from the reality of the circumstance in the real world and a lot of that again conflated through tech under the guise of entertainment.

00:33:04.055 --> 00:33:14.675
And so I think, as parents, we can't compete with the speed of technology today to try to forewarn or teach our kids or, like in your case, teach the world to whatever extent and scale.

00:33:14.695 --> 00:33:17.465
A better way to process that information and any of those triggers or the reality of them, because it's developing too fast.

00:33:17.465 --> 00:33:49.420
A better way to process that information and any of those triggers or the reality of them, because it's developing too fast and we're trying to process at that pace right, and there's more threats and things we need to focus on that we're unfamiliar with, to give advice on it, and so I think what we can do and this is maybe a biased opinion, but I think what we can do is educate and instigate character development and discernment and inquiry and, you know, some degree of discipline in that process and respect and all these other sort of values and character traits.

00:33:49.420 --> 00:34:04.505
I think absolutely now, 70 to 80 years ago, whatever you were raised on has a very strong play into how you've turned out now, despite everything you've experienced, and so this is a segment of the show called Developing Character.

00:34:06.134 --> 00:34:08.603
And it's two questions as vulnerable as you want to be.

00:34:08.603 --> 00:34:16.688
My first question, though, is what were some of the values then that you were raised on or that you remember being brought up around?

00:34:17.335 --> 00:34:20.045
Well, I have something I want to share with you too.

00:34:20.045 --> 00:34:30.994
I don't totally agree that parents are outspent or outmaneuvered by entertainment or technology, although I think it plays a big part.

00:34:30.994 --> 00:34:35.166
I think we still can do things with our children.

00:34:35.166 --> 00:34:38.083
So I grew up in a military family.

00:34:38.083 --> 00:34:40.438
I had a miserable childhood.

00:34:40.438 --> 00:34:48.364
I was sick and abandoned at six months old and the babysitter took me to the hospital or I would have died.

00:34:48.364 --> 00:34:50.387
I was taken away.

00:34:50.387 --> 00:34:51.137
I made my.

00:34:51.277 --> 00:34:59.101
I have memories of making my own scrambled eggs on an open gas stove at the age of two, and my father was military.

00:34:59.101 --> 00:35:08.469
He came back from World War II, from New Guinea, and took me and my older sister she was two years older than me away from our mother.

00:35:08.469 --> 00:35:09.818
We never saw her again.

00:35:09.818 --> 00:35:11.902
We had got no explanation.

00:35:11.902 --> 00:35:21.088
He put us in boarding schools during the week and took care of us on the weekend, and in 1945, as a single father, won custody of two little girls.

00:35:21.088 --> 00:35:24.259
That was my early life, wow, right.

00:35:24.259 --> 00:35:37.485
So I know that my father was attempting to be responsible and honorable, and he also was a military man in the days when a man's home was his castle.

00:35:37.485 --> 00:35:43.342
So we got spanked, we got fined, we were made to work.

00:35:43.342 --> 00:35:46.364
It was not a really happy childhood.

00:35:46.364 --> 00:35:48.503
Plus, we moved all the time.

00:35:48.503 --> 00:35:58.047
I lived in 14 different homes and went to 17, or lived in 12 different homes and went to 14 different schools by the time I got out of high school, right.

00:35:58.047 --> 00:36:10.076
So my father, he talked about telling the truth, and to the best of his ability I think he did, but there were no emotions or anything like that.

00:36:10.577 --> 00:36:12.800
So let me update to what I want to tell you.

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:14.364
So what did I learn?

00:36:14.364 --> 00:36:22.324
Well, I did spend a year on the farm with my grandparents when I was five and that was a respite for me.

00:36:22.324 --> 00:36:30.286
That saved my soul, because I was an only child and I got loved and I got taught things and it was a respite.

00:36:30.286 --> 00:36:38.764
So when my husband walked out on me and my child, suddenly it occurred to me it's up to me to raise this child.

00:36:38.764 --> 00:36:40.418
How do I want to do it?

00:36:40.418 --> 00:36:42.896
I don't want to do all the things my parents did.

00:36:42.896 --> 00:36:46.864
You know it's some of it I'll take, but most of it I don't want.

00:36:46.864 --> 00:36:50.518
And, like you, this was in the early 70s.

00:36:50.518 --> 00:36:58.659
I looked out and said you know, my parents taught children, but and their parents by saying, you're going to be in this situation.

00:36:58.659 --> 00:37:00.784
This is how you behave in this situation.

00:37:00.784 --> 00:37:06.375
They did situational teaching and, like you, I thought the world's changing so fast.

00:37:06.375 --> 00:37:12.347
My kids are going to be in situations I can't even imagine yeah how am I going to prepare them?

00:37:12.795 --> 00:37:15.722
I have to have something, prepare something inside of them.

00:37:15.722 --> 00:37:27.829
So I developed a method that I called conscious parenting, of helping children learn to take responsibility, to learn from their mistakes, etc.

00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:33.503
And I want to tell you my signature story from the many parenting classes that I've taught.

00:37:33.503 --> 00:37:35.387
If I can take time to do that, yes, please.

00:37:35.387 --> 00:37:39.525
I do have my son's permission he's now an adult to tell this story.

00:37:39.525 --> 00:37:41.856
He was eight years old.

00:37:41.876 --> 00:37:54.429
He started a new school in our town and the third week I received a phone call from a convenience store manager telling me he'd been caught stealing a candy bar in the store.

00:37:54.429 --> 00:38:00.188
Now I had told my children we'd talked about the fact that the earth is a giant school.

00:38:00.188 --> 00:38:03.585
When you have an experience, it's an opportunity to learn something.

00:38:03.585 --> 00:38:16.367
So when he walked in the door after school, I turned to him he's eight and I said oh, I heard that today is the day you decided to learn about stealing.

00:38:16.367 --> 00:38:17.248
Is that right?

00:38:17.248 --> 00:38:21.242
And he said yes, you know he was.

00:38:21.242 --> 00:38:24.858
And I said well, what happened?

00:38:24.858 --> 00:38:26.822
What happened that you stole?

00:38:26.822 --> 00:38:38.101
And he said well, there were these two boys that he was walking with and they told him that they stole candy bars and it was fun and it would be fun for him to accept.

00:38:38.101 --> 00:38:39.905
They didn't get caught.

00:38:39.905 --> 00:38:40.648
And I did.

00:38:41.070 --> 00:38:48.612
He said let me see if I, if I understand this right, there were these two boys, I mean these two voices.

00:38:48.612 --> 00:38:55.835
They were outside of you and they were telling you stealing would be fun and you listened to them and did what they said.

00:38:55.835 --> 00:38:57.077
Is that correct?

00:38:57.077 --> 00:39:02.228
And he said yeah, and I said was there any other voice you heard?

00:39:02.228 --> 00:39:06.179
Yes, well, whose voice was that?

00:39:06.179 --> 00:39:06.981
What did it say?

00:39:06.981 --> 00:39:10.289
And he said I think it was my voice.

00:39:10.289 --> 00:39:14.780
And it said don't do it, it's not a good idea.

00:39:16.021 --> 00:39:23.878
And I said so know, you heard these two voices outside of you saying steal it would be fun, and you listen to them.

00:39:23.878 --> 00:39:28.206
And you heard this voice coming from inside saying it's not a good idea, and you didn't listen.

00:39:28.206 --> 00:39:37.980
Tell me something If you could go back and live today over again, would you make the same decision or would you make a different decision?

00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:41.769
Yeah, he said immediately, I would make a different decision.

00:39:41.769 --> 00:39:44.889
I would listen to the voice coming from inside of me.

00:39:44.889 --> 00:40:11.541
In fact, mom, from now on I'm listening to the voice coming from inside of me and not to voices coming from outside of me and I was able to say to him honey, if you learned that stealing is not worth it and it's more important to listen to the voice coming from inside of you than to voices coming from outside, I think you had a very valuable day and I want you to know I'm proud of you.

00:40:11.541 --> 00:40:12.543
Wow.

00:40:13.164 --> 00:40:16.931
Wow, wow, that's good, that's good.

00:40:16.931 --> 00:40:18.213
I like that a lot.

00:40:18.981 --> 00:40:19.822
Good, I do too.

00:40:19.822 --> 00:40:21.626
I love it, and it's a true story.

00:40:21.626 --> 00:40:23.431
I was told it exactly as it happened.

00:40:23.431 --> 00:40:26.077
Good, I do too, I love it, and it's a true story.

00:40:26.077 --> 00:40:26.960
I was told it exactly as it happened.

00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:32.625
So I've surveyed a whole bunch of adults, because almost every kid steals something in their childhood, right?

00:40:32.625 --> 00:40:36.393
And so I've said how many of you stole, what do you remember about that?

00:40:36.393 --> 00:40:39.945
And almost to a person, they don't remember anything.

00:40:39.945 --> 00:40:40.885
They learn.

00:40:40.885 --> 00:40:51.164
They remember their parent being angry with them, right, because the parent thinks their kid should not steal, right, that's the should the parent has.

00:40:51.184 --> 00:40:51.485
Sure.

00:40:52.059 --> 00:41:08.992
And so part of my message to parents is when your child has an experience where they don't make a good decision, you wanna reflect it so that they do their own learning that they are not focused on you and what's happening with you, but they're focused on themselves.

00:41:08.992 --> 00:41:15.731
So when he was about 14, so six years later he had given me permission.

00:41:15.731 --> 00:41:20.369
He said if it helps other people, you can talk about it, mom, which was cool.

00:41:20.369 --> 00:41:29.088
And so I said to him you know, I've been telling this story for six years and I'm curious have you ever stolen since then?

00:41:29.088 --> 00:41:30.731
And he was quiet.

00:41:30.731 --> 00:41:36.606
And then he looked at me and he said no, I've never stolen again, but I have lied a few times.

00:41:39.972 --> 00:41:41.675
You know one lesson at a time, I guess.

00:41:43.240 --> 00:41:46.469
As a therapist, you know when we're talking about character.

00:41:46.469 --> 00:41:48.092
See, my son was building character.

00:41:48.092 --> 00:41:52.612
Character to me means living according to your own ideals and principles.

00:41:52.612 --> 00:41:56.449
He developed his ideals and principles that day.

00:41:56.449 --> 00:42:06.842
So what we're doing when we help our children learn from what they are experiencing is we're helping them to develop their character.

00:42:07.403 --> 00:42:09.106
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:42:09.106 --> 00:42:10.028
I think so too.

00:42:10.028 --> 00:42:17.112
Now, eileen, for the sake of time, I have one other question, and I think this is a pretty big question and maybe pretty loaded.

00:42:17.112 --> 00:42:21.253
So, just to you know, manage our time in a few minutes or less, if you're able.

00:42:21.253 --> 00:42:31.362
How have all of these experiences, or to whatever extent you're able, how have all of these experiences, or to whatever extent you want to group some together, actually influenced or instigated your own self-worth?

00:42:31.965 --> 00:42:45.010
I don't know if I can say it specifically regarding anger, but learning to work with emotions has helped me raise my concept of myself.

00:42:45.492 --> 00:42:50.186
I also have been privileged to learn seven pillars of self-esteem.

00:42:50.186 --> 00:43:03.561
Anybody who is carrying anger with them usually has also got some self-esteem issues, because anger that we hold on to destroys those seven pillars all of them Right.

00:43:03.561 --> 00:43:08.103
So show me a person with low self esteem and I will show you an angry person.

00:43:08.103 --> 00:43:22.034
It's what I usually say, so it impacts me when I'm able to release anger and move it on and resolve the issue that my own self is bringing up for me to learn.

00:43:22.034 --> 00:43:23.376
That's where I think these things, that these experiences come from.

00:43:23.376 --> 00:43:23.574
It's my own self is bringing up for me to learn.

00:43:23.574 --> 00:43:25.644
That's where I think these things, that these experiences come from.

00:43:25.644 --> 00:43:28.809
It's my own self giving me an opportunity to learn.

00:43:28.809 --> 00:43:33.389
When I do that, my life has just gotten better and better and better.

00:43:33.389 --> 00:43:35.407
Here I am, 81 years old.

00:43:35.407 --> 00:43:51.005
I'm currently in my RV that I've been living in since 2017 after my husband died, traveling North America, still working, still sharing what I've learned with people and having a good life.

00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.036
Yeah, well, congratulations, absolutely, thank you.

00:43:55.036 --> 00:44:11.269
Yeah, now, if anybody wants to, well, find out more about your book Emotions in Motion, get in touch with you, maybe even as a client or as a former client, to get back in touch with you and just see how life's going, or whatever, whichever, or find out if you're coming to a nearby town and meet you in person.

00:44:11.269 --> 00:44:13.465
I don't know how do people get in touch with you?

00:44:13.465 --> 00:44:14.664
Where do they go to do these things?

00:44:15.260 --> 00:44:18.610
Well, I have a website Emotional Mastery for Life.

00:44:18.610 --> 00:44:21.947
However, I'm technologically challenged.

00:44:21.947 --> 00:44:34.507
I have another email that works and it's Eileen I-L-E-N-E at emotionalprocom, like professional, and people can write me Ilene@ emotionalpro.

00:44:34.547 --> 00:44:35.791
com.

00:44:35.791 --> 00:44:36.903
My book is on Amazon.

00:44:36.903 --> 00:44:44.668
Just look up Emotions in Motion, Ilene Dillon, and it comes up and I'm happy to answer questions.

00:44:44.668 --> 00:44:50.831
If you read my book and you're not clear on something, send me a question.

00:44:51.393 --> 00:44:52.293
Great, perfect.

00:44:52.293 --> 00:44:57.965
Well for anybody new to the show, depending on what player you're streaming this conversation on, you can click see more.

00:44:57.965 --> 00:45:07.347
You can click show more and in the dropdown description for this conversation you will see links to get in touch with Eileen in the show notes there for this conversation as well.

00:45:07.347 --> 00:45:10.563
So hopefully that helps out a little bit streamline the process.

00:45:10.563 --> 00:45:20.521
Now, all things considered, I appreciate every ounce of this conversation and you've connected quite a few dots for me that we didn't have time to discuss.

00:45:20.521 --> 00:45:32.664
But I do appreciate your insight and I'm hoping you covered these seven pillars of self-esteem alongside these 12 aspects of anger you had alluded to earlier in your book.

00:45:33.266 --> 00:45:34.369
Oh, I didn't put that in.

00:45:34.369 --> 00:45:35.032
I intended.

00:45:35.032 --> 00:45:37.949
I intend to write another book on self-esteem.

00:45:37.949 --> 00:45:41.949
Oh, perfect, but I'll come back and do another show with you if you have room for that.

00:45:42.179 --> 00:45:44.226
Yeah, absolutely, and we can talk about it too.

00:45:44.226 --> 00:45:45.349
Yeah, I think this is cool.

00:45:45.349 --> 00:46:02.981
I really appreciate your time and the opportunity you made in your schedule to sit down and talk a little bit and from what I'm gathering in maybe a little bit of a different light than what you've been more primarily accustomed to, so I appreciate your vulnerability and your authenticity and your insight and your willingness to talk and your time.

00:46:02.981 --> 00:46:04.403
So thanks for coming on the show.

00:46:04.985 --> 00:46:06.427
Thank you, it's my honor.

00:46:06.427 --> 00:46:08.329
Oh, thank you, josh, I appreciate it.

00:46:08.469 --> 00:46:11.074
Thank you, yeah, and for anybody else who's new to the show.

00:46:11.074 --> 00:46:19.641
Thank you guys for tuning in Continuing listeners, thank you guys for coming back.

00:46:19.641 --> 00:46:27.773
Every aspect of our conversations with any other ambassadors in addition to Eileen now that have come onto this show to help instigate self-worth to anybody around the world that listens to these, including you guys.

00:46:27.773 --> 00:46:37.324
The listeners are just as much a valued contribution to these conversations than any other ideas me or anyone else who comes on the show has while we talk.

00:46:37.324 --> 00:46:40.840
So make sure you're letting people know about the show.

00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:43.503
Tell them about Transacting Value, the podcast.

00:46:43.503 --> 00:46:44.525
Let them know where to go transactingvaluepodcast.

00:46:44.525 --> 00:46:46.329
com.

00:46:46.329 --> 00:46:50.875
Let them know that there's all sorts of topics and conversations that you want to hear, that you've listened to.

00:46:50.875 --> 00:47:01.010
Share with them these shows, these conversations, and become that person, that broker of knowledge, that instigator of self-worth for your friends, your spheres of influence, your families.

00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:02.686
I appreciate your time.

00:47:02.686 --> 00:47:07.855
I appreciate your guys' influence and willingness to learn alongside us as we grow through life, in these conversations.

00:47:07.855 --> 00:47:10.648
Thank you to our show partners and folks.

00:47:10.648 --> 00:47:23.987
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00:47:23.987 --> 00:47:26.019
Please reach out on our website, transactingvaluepodcast.

00:47:26.019 --> 00:47:28.228
com.

00:47:28.228 --> 00:47:35.690
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00:47:35.690 --> 00:47:38.949
Until next time, that was Transacting Value.