Faith, Character & Identity

Who we are is so important because what that is is just gonna blah.

It's gonna vomit out. It's gonna get out there whether we need to or not. Alrighty, folks. Welcome back to transacting value where we're encouraging dialogue from different perspectives to unite over shared values.

Our theme for season 4 is intrinsic values. So what your character is doing when you look yourself in the mirror. Now if you're new to the podcast, welcome and if you're a continuing listener welcome back.

Today we're talking our April core values of growth, stewardship, and contentment with teacher, author, mother, connoisseur of all things chocolate, lover of horses, and all sorts of things in between which we'll get to.

But her name is Cindy Dagnon.

So without further ado, folks again, welcome to the show. I'm Porter. I'm your host, and this is transacting value. Cindy, how you doing? Doing great, Porter. I don't know what it's doing there, but it's a cozy rainy day here.

So it says build a fire, read a book, Sounds pretty awesome. Yeah. For real. For the first time, actually, in probably the last week, maybe 2, there's son and it's warm.

Now I say warm. Right? We're talking mid fifties, but compared to what it's been, it's -- For sure. -- pretty nice. Missouri's schizophrenic. It'll be 22, and then it'll be 6 and then 22 and then 60.

And this is spring break. So there you go. Well, you give it to us. Most of it comes west to east from the least together the last couple of weeks. Yeah. So thanks for sharing. Sharing.

That's it. Yeah. So for everybody listening though, Cindy, they can't see you. Right? I'm only recording the audio, and for everybody listening who may not be aware of Cindy, her books, her accolades, or just who she is as a person.

I'd like to start off pretty simply just for a little relatability. Okay? So Cindy take a couple minutes.

The floor is yours. Who are you? Where are you from? What shaped your perspective? I grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, and my dad was a minister there, which brought its own sets of challenges, you can imagine.

The last thing you wanna do as a high school or a stand out in any way, but 1 of the core values other than the faith that we grew up with was my dad telling us that character is who you are when nobody's working.

Oh. And that stuck with me.

It's something that I share with my high school students. You know, it doesn't matter if you don't get the gold star or someone is not seeing if you're choosing right, you need to do that just because that is your character.

And it seems to be something that is slipping a little bit, so I'm so excited and pumped to hear about your podcast.

Well, I appreciate you bringing it up. As a matter of fact, like you heard in the intro and for everybody listening. Intrinsic value as we're defining it anyway for a baseline for this season, being know, what your character is doing.

So in terms of an activity, when no one's looking. But all things considered, yeah, you know, your character is who you represent. Or what represents you before you get there.

Right? I think an important distinction for the sake of this podcast is If your character is how you're represented before you get there, your reputation is how other people present you before you get there. Absolutely.

And it's 1 of those sterling things that you cannot so much get back, and we would always tell our children we have 4 daughters man, you know, if you live your life in a certain way, when someone comes at you with an accusation, someone will be like, absolutely not.

That person would never do that. That's not how they behave. And it's a it's a thing that comes as a composite of our values, I think. Yeah. I think so, especially now too.

I mean, you're an author, and we'll get to that here soon. But Even in a digital gaming environment or this sort of hybrid business industrial revolution happening now too, where everything sort of merged real world and digitized world.

But how you present yourself online now carries a lot of the same gravity as how you carry yourself in person and that's what people attribute to you whether or not they see you.

And perhaps even more so because that so called digital footprint never goes away.

Which is something that's hard to explain to, you know, a student. I'll be like, oh, man. I got suspended in my social media settings. We're on private and blah.

It just takes 1 screenshot or 1 someone that shared that, and that's something that I I see a lot of hope, at least in the classes that I teach in the middle of all the naysayers, is that I think slowly, we're bringing back some of these old fashioned skill sets and this notion of character.

And I I work on that just as well as I do.

American history with my high school students, and on this notion with moms and dads when I'm doing marriage workshops or when I'm getting to speak at a ladies conference, man, who we are is so important because what that is is just gonna blah.

It's gonna vomit out. It's gonna get out there whether we need to or not. Because of our character. Oh, yeah.

And I think what's cool to your point you mentioned being suspended or banned or whatever online as a profile for some of your high schoolers that it gets relegated as sort of a justification all the time that let's just say Facebook, nothing against them, but their popularity is an easy example, that Well, Facebook banned me because this post was against their policy.

Facebook wrote the policy. True. Right? And their moderators decided that Your profile or whoever sat behind the keyboard and made that post violated that policy, also true.

But the moderators, at least for now, are people And so you're actually able, I think, arguably, for the first time in human history recorded human history, able to see somebody's feedback of how you present yourself without them ever talking to you in real time.

Absolutely. And so is it unfair that again to the example, Facebook ban your profile. Maybe sure, circumstantially, let's just say yes.

However, also it's a pretty solid indicator and you're still getting social feedback. As to your behavior, courage, or or whatever. So I don't know. I think it's kind of a cool plot twist, so to speak.

And it it certainly makes you aware that there's nothing very much that is private anymore once you decide to create a profile on anything, be it, you know, Instagram or either Twitter, LinkedIn, it doesn't matter what you're doing, you know, even if students are like, oh, miss Dee, you wanna be part of my b real.

Snap like, you gave me right now? Yeah. Yeah. You made me proud to be real when there's no PH0NE s's on this Cool.

But, yeah, it's pretty funny. Yeah. Well, that happens sometimes too. Right? Maybe you're in a the off chance or in the background of a selfie photo bombs used to be cool.

Now everybody's worried about them. And now, you know, they gotta edit you out. Yeah. Speaking of you as a person, let's roll to that. So This brings us to a segment of the show called developing character.

The developing character. Now, it's 2 questions, 2 different times. As open or as vulnerable and as willing as you're as you are answering these, is totally up to you.

For everybody listening, if you haven't heard the show, If you hear, well, I haven't thought about it or I don't know, that's totally a fine answer too.

No problem. Question number 1. You mentioned this earlier, you alluded to a little bit earlier, but what were some of your values growing up.

Absolutely. In a lot of ways, they didn't change. It was that character. It was a core faith. In other words, what's gonna be there when life knocks you down?

When maybe mom and dad aren't there, if you were blessed enough to have a stable home growing up, which I know from teaching that lots of people have not, that did not change very much for me, except I got to see if those things actually played out in real time.

Because I had a pretty idealistic childhood and then kind of some hellacious times and events post that.

My first husband walked out on me and my 16 month old daughter left us a note in 200 dollars to the car. So I was a single mom for 3 and a half years. Met a wonderful man to whom I have now been married 28 years.

We have 4 children, 6 grandchildren, and it was during those times is this, you know, the old eighties commercial, this is not your father's oldsmobile. So is this just my mom and dad's values, just my mom and dad's faith.

And, ultimately, I decided that, no, that is something that I can hang on to. And then we lost my husband and I lost our 98 year old farmhouse that we had worked on for 4 years in the May 2003 tornado.

And I was like, seriously, And then my husband had to have a kidney transplant on our fifteenth wedding anniversary, and it was kinda like either we find a donor and gets transplant or he doesn't, and this is it.

I'm gonna be a widow with 4 children, and I our joke used to be because, you know, that's kinda how you have to deal is, hey, you die and live me a widow with 4 children and kill you myself.

Right. Because, you know, that just seemed weird, but as my dad used to say, that's where the rubber meets the road. Do I believe in these core values. What is my character gonna be like when life sucks?

Because it it does, and I think for a lot of people since 20 20, it has just been a lot more anxious feeling, you know, since that time, we're like, wow, I got to star in an apocalyptic sifi movie that I didn't remember auditioning for, and frankly, didn't wanna be in.

And it shut down a lot of things. And when you're stuck at home, with everybody. And you're not going out, I think that character certainly comes out because there's nowhere else there's no other outlet.

For it for sure. So, that was my quick version of my journey of, hey, is what you thought? Originally still how you're gonna live your life as an adult.

Yeah. Well, sometimes it doesn't line up. Actually, most times it doesn't line up. Well, so okay. Let's move to present day then. Question number 2, All of that being said, what are some of your values now?

I would say they're the same ones but deeper because every experience that I have had has told me That is the only thing that is consistent in a world where everything's, you know, changeable.

Today, you're getting a new book contract every 2 years and you're speaking 20 times a year, and then that's not the hot thing. And then, you know, Facebook is the thing. Nope. Instagram is a thing. Oh, nope. Now you gotta have this.

You gotta have that. So, in the middle of everything changes, what's in style, what people like, what sort of delivery they want, what color hair is in, what sort of fashion is in, what is it that grounds you. Yeah.

And ultimately, that same idea of being incredibly loyal and understanding that what I have found to be an absolute bedrock of truth and faith in my life, does that still work when everything else is shrinking, shifting, seismic changes, and I have found the answer to be.

Yes. Yeah. It's funny. You mentioned well, it's not funny. There's of things that can happen in life, obviously, they derail our plans that aren't very funny at all.

But to your point, when you said sometimes all you can do is laugh and joke. Right? Like, you still gotta take those moments and weigh him out and sort of make some responsible and sometimes difficult decisions.

But I personally really like the approach is sometimes you just gotta throw your hands up and laugh about it.

Like, there's no other way right now for me to process. You know? Believe that. Yes. I'm thinking, if you're gonna laugh later, why don't you just laugh now and save yourself the trouble.

Hey. I mean, Seriously, procrastination is a problem. You know? Right? Just doing that. I mean, if you haven't, like, it's not cried and laughed at the same time.

And have you ever actually lived I know. For real. Yeah. You know, to the points where you can't or I guess to the points when you can't. Already folks sit tight and we'll be right back on transacting value.

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And have you ever actually lived? I don't know. Real. Yeah. You know, to the points where you can't. I guess to the points when you can't. You mentioned something before we hit record that I thought was pretty interesting too.

And for everybody listening, this is not meant to dive too far into religion, but I think there is a always I mean, at least as long as I've been marketing this podcast, a leaning where people hear about values and they think, okay, spirituality.

And then they hear spirituality or think spirituality and they think either religion or yoga.

Right? And that's about it. Not to say that they don't cross in some senses, but, you know, that's generally where it goes. And I'm like, okay.

Well, there's ways to represent religion when you're talking about values, obviously, in virtues and, you know, deadly sins and all these other things that it could become, there's also ways to include faith into that conversation And there's also ways and reasons in my opinion when you don't have to.

You don't have to be religious to understand the impact of values. Or a benefit to being comparably more virtuous or maybe moral than not.

Right? And you said something, Cindy, that I think is Interesting that where the rubber meets the road, you said your dad mentioned that often. But it wasn't until you said that that I didn't really it clicked in my head.

I think that as far as faith goes, and you had mentioned that earlier as well growing up with your dad in Saint Louis, but I think as far as faith goes, Having faith as a baseline or as a foundation is a better word.

Having faith as a foundation gives you the opportunity to stand on something when your character is not developed enough to handle it.

And, you know, because otherwise, maybe you can pull yourself through. That doesn't mean you have to be less religious. That doesn't make you less I don't know, less Godly or more evil or whatever your continuum is.

You're just not ready to handle it yourself yet. And so you've gotta have something to hang on to, and I think there is a relevance of faith, and spirituality when it comes to values, but the point that I'm getting at is I don't think.

Just because you identify values in self worth and self esteem, that that means you have less of a religious leaning or you're becoming less religious.

Right? And here's why I bring that up. You mentioned your dad was a pastor and growing up and those experiences in that background. Has that impacted your Livlihood or your perspective through your livelihood?

Absolutely. Because 1 of my things I thought that was very funny that you would say religion versus like yoga, we think we meditate or say, ohm. And I I would just say, well, I'm absolutely for church attendance.

I would also say, for those of you that maybe put off by that, religion, boo his, relationship with Jesus. Yes. Because I think 1 of the things that derails our values as it comes to what you're calling, quote, religion -- Sure.

-- is the great hypocrisy or inconsistency that we see in people who say, I want to be godly, and then they don't live that way.

And it's hard to be charitable. To people when we see that inconsistency rather than going, well, gosh darn it.

Every single 1 of us, you know, needs that grace But so my bedrock for that would be that my values in the way that I wanna raise my children, that I want to help with my grandchildren, the way I wanna love my husband, the the way I want to love my students and impassion them about history and communication and and just growing into level headed and thinking adults is that faith is the centrality of all of that.

So when I am at work or when I am at my home, I'm not supposed to be doing it just because I met my home or just because I met the high school, I'm working to please god because that's my maternal value.

And I want something to outlast this 1, which I would think that is what most everyone wants, and perhaps that's a commonality regardless of how we believe that we should get there, and that is that I think we want to spend this life on the things that outlast it.

Yeah. Well, I mean, generational wealth doesn't have to be financial. It might be the lessons you pass on. It might be the values you build in, you know, within any sort of family system adopted or built or born into?

Sure. Yeah. Sure. And then all those things can now last. I think it's a great point. But so My dad and I get 56 years old of cancer. 12 hours after my third daughter was born.

And so, the way that I know that his legacy and the way that he raised us girls worked is he is in conversation in our family, you know, nearly daily, not in a sad Maccab way, but in a when I get up to speak somewhere at a conference, I want my daddy to be pleased with me.

Which means that ultimately, then that I want God to be pleased with the way that I'm living my life, which in no way connotes perfection or even to put that pressure on someone, that is exactly why we need that help with our values.

Because like you said, it's a rare person, and they can't do it indefinitely that can just grid it and make it up by themselves for sure. Yeah. I agree. And being able to pull in I mean, even already in this conversation, you know.

Like you said, where the rubber meets the road, these things that that your dad even used to say that now you stand on and that you rely on and that now all these other people are gonna hear and stand on and find some relevance too and resonance with.

I think it's 1 of the best ways to honor somebody especially to honor their memory but living or not is to be able to show that what they've done has had an impact. Absolutely.

Yes. And now you've written speaking of impact. 8 books from what you told me. Mhmm. And of those 8 books, of all the characters you've created, of all the settings you've designed and plot lines you've twisted and orchestrated.

Has there been any relevance or resonance from your personal values in those books? I would hope there'd be a lot in that. 3 of them come to mind.

I've only written 1 that's fiction, which, man, that was rough. I much prefer research because you have to think like that character, but I would think the lights of home because that book deadline was right after my dad died.

3 weeks later, I was contracted to do a woman's retreat whose topic was heaven.

And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, I can barely stand up without balling. But it was the stories of ultimately the blessing of this home should be a reflection of the heavenly home to come.

And then my marriage book that I got to band focus on the family hot chocolate for couples because I'm so passionate with my background and my story about reminding couples that marriage is hard.

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Buzzprout can do that too. And then my marriage book that I got to band focus on the family hot chocolate for couples because I'm so passionate with my background and my story about reminding couples that marriage is hard.

And sometimes, I think we get all focused on the wedding thing, and I know wedding venues are huge right now. In the last 3 years, our 3 youngest girls have gotten married, our youngest 1 most recently on January eighth.

Oh, wow. And -- Congratulations. -- this this is a cool thank you very much. Yeah. But it's I want their marriages to be able to last.

And and I think on the front side, sometimes we need to say, this is gonna be hard. Someday you're gonna wake up and you're gonna look at your love it on the pillow and you're just gonna think to yourself, I can't I can't with this.

But to know, hey, that's normal, and here's some things that you know, can get you past that, and that perseverance in character can get you past that.

And then finally, I think the novel was good because I started writing that in my head at a huge hearts of home conference when woman after woman came up who was in a season of their lives where they had stayed home with their children, and they were just, I just feel lost.

I don't feel like, I'm important like, what do I do that is worthy?

And yes, we know the hand that rocks the cradle rules of the world, and all of that, but it doesn't seem, you know, immediately I know for myself, I was like, I have 3 college degrees and a masters.

And I'm so proud that I took a shower before noon today. And that didn't seem, you know, very attention grabbing So I wanted to put in a story, which I think all of us can relate to a story of some sort.

I wanted to put in there a real life person who just struggles. Who loves her husband, who loves her kids, but also sometimes thinks, ah, you're too much. Yeah.

You're so much and to use humor and drama and I made her husband a police detective just because that's something I was familiar with and had a whole subset of crime and then her whole identity as her background growing up that was an underlay of that story so there'd be something that could appeal to everyone and Ultimately, she comes back to that full circle decision of her character and that, yes, I do believe this, but, man, sometimes the work to get back to that is phenomenally hard, and I'm not sure when we're in that cusp of adulthood that we really believe that.

We're like, I'm just gonna blow this popsicle joint call to high school and do whatever I want.

Yep. Which I just told my students, then get me a job application if you find something where you can do whatever you want. Mhmm. So I was gonna be telling you what to do. For quite some time in your adult life. Sorry. Right. Yeah.

Well, let me caveat that or whatever the appropriate phrase there is that If you found a way to take whatever was provided to you, let's say, as a teenager, whatever resources you had, whatever income you had, whatever background, family upbringing, whatever plies that you had provided to you as a teenager, and you were actually a more effective steward of those resources.

Maybe getting out of high school, you could start your business and do what you want.

It I think is possible and we're seeing it now. Right? People start YouTube channels and all sorts of income and paying off student loans for parents or whatever applies.

So I think there's potential there but the growth in relationships I think has to start with a growth recognition in yourself. For sure. I think what this research is showing us is that you can't grow without a level of introspection.

And that is that we are uncomfortable with, because it means that someone's gonna say, you're too impatient. My husband will tell me that occasion. What? What? I'm impatient. How dare you?

And then you get back a little ways and you're like, I can be impatient. Yeah. I get it now. First divided behind you going, it's 45. It's 45. Why are we not going 45? In the windshield. Yeah. I'm not I'm not flipping anybody off.

That's not my style. I'm just reminding you politely. Could you please go the whole speed limit? Yeah yeah yeah. 9 fingers, not 1. There's a big difference, but like Right. You know Lots of them. Yeah. Sure. Sure.

The flock of birds. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You know, here in criticism about us, like, when your kids it's real easy to perceive it or to watch it happen and assume that it's bullying. Because it's tough and that's what it looks like.

And it's emotionally difficult when it's your own kids. To watch it happen. Right? But sometimes you gotta let the fall happen. And you know it's gonna be bad, but you're like, well, I'd scream you, but I'm watching. You know?

The flip side I think is, as you become more of an adult, which I think is sort of a sliding scale when that happens, but as you become more of an adult, you need to start to identify those moments as all of them are constructive, I think.

This is a personal view. All of them are constructive. Right? Somebody can call you a name. Somebody can say something about the way you perceive something or like you said, you're impatient or whatever.

And you can take it personally, that's fine. And it may not do any good for you in the moment hearing that. But once you realize either some level of acceptance that, oh, okay.

Well, it's true. I get it now. Or Okay. How did I handle that criticism though? And I'm the only 1 that can control that. Nobody else is gonna dictate how I respond to something.

They might cause it. They might provoke it, but they're not dictating it. I just was thinking about that because I think we wanna use that as a mid excuse. Well, Porter said something that hurt my feelings, so I have to be this way.

And it's kind of a step on your toes reality that I don't. Yeah. I can shove that away and go, well, did Porter say that to hurt my feelings? Because he was angry or is there some truth to that or whoever it is?

And then we come back, and that's part of maturity to say, I do have something to learn and I do value this person's opinion, or I can honestly objectively say, I didn't have anything any fault in that particular thing, and I don't value this person's opinion.

And so I can still be kind, but I'm just gonna go on my merry way and and let that come off.

But like you said, I think in the moment, that's really hard because we don't wanna hear we are less than. And I think that's the message that stays with us.

We know that for whatever reason, biologically, we're a little bit primed to have the negative things stick with us longer than the positive things, and that's unfortunate because if if someone says, how's your day, and your last hour at work, was crappy, you're probably gonna say, I the worst day.

Yeah. But you didn't, bully. You had 7 great date or 7 great hours and 1 horrible hour, but what you chose to carry home was the crappy hour.

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You had 7 great date or 7 great hours and 1 horrible hour, but what you chose to carry home was the crappy hour. And I think that's part of the adult thing.

Yeah. That's a great point. So what lessons have you learned or what steps have you taken or what steps have you learned about? To work through some of those things now that you've acknowledged they exist.

Yes. I am working on patients still which pains me very much because then all these situations happen that you don't want. But 1 thing that I was challenged to read some stuff by my second born daughter and I love to read.

I read at stoplights. I read while I walk, so I'm a little bit addicted. But 1 of the challenges was to drive just exactly the speed limit.

To not be okay. I'm on the highway. It's 75. I'm gonna go 79 or 80. Mhmm. Or it's 40 here. I'm gonna go 45. But to I feel like when I was younger words like Amble or linger were more common, and now no 1 does that.

Like, it's just the altar of efficiency. Let's go let's go let's go. Yeah. And it can be very much like that. And, you know, it can be in the sub checkout line going, is 10 items or less?

Did you not count, you know, how rude are you? And I'm thinking of course all this in my head because, you know, my mom's voice is like, don't you be rude. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, loud. Your your face just says it for you.

And I have been trying that as a personal challenge lately in the last few weeks to just Just go that far and no farther and to mark out a day on my calendar that just says, no. No. I can't do anything.

You know barring an emergency, whatever someone needs from me, I can't do it because it makes me short-tempered with the very people who I need to be loving to the most. And those lymph nodes are different for everyone.

And certainly, they are different for me now, you know, at my very ancient as as I tell my students back when we rode dinosaurs to school, then it was when I was younger, your energy level changes, your interest level changes, But the idea that you could ever be done working on yourself for your character, I don't think that's possible because we all have things we can improve on.

Yeah. But it takes a conscious effort. And that's it's the problem is it usually means someone else has to point it out to you, which hurts dreadfully.

Yeah. Yeah. So Like, you don't love me. I do. I love you, but I'm just saying, you have this huge, big glaring wall of impatience in it. Makes your sort with people. Oh my gosh. You can just hear your eyes rolling.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Possibly. You might have a small point. Yeah. You know, there was AAA move? I think it was a movie. And I don't even know what it was now. I'm doing a horrible job representing that director.

Sorry whoever it was. But the point of the movie there's a dark game. I just saw this the other day. There's a dark game. And the guy I assume to be the main character was throwing darts.

And as he's throwing darts, it was a set of 3 they were playing the game. And as he's throwing darts, telling a story about how he grew up with his dad, and they were talking about him getting better at playing darts.

Well now he's an adult. He gets challenged to this game and just talked down to, basically, and baited into this game. Well, as he's telling the story, he says and I haven't looked this up anybody listening, feel free.

But in the movie, he says, Walt Whitman said to be curious, not judgmental. And he said had you the other people in the audience watching the game near the players.

Instead taking a step back To be curious and asked if I'd ever played darts before I could have told you, yeah, for all these years, every week with my dad.

And he's nailing every shot as he calls it. Right? Instead, you were judgmental, talking to me about my character, and I'm paraphrasing, but talking to me about my character, and essentially judging me before you got to know me.

Tell us, I think. I think. I'm gonna have to look. I really don't know, but I think. And so what we're talking about judging books and covers, reeling back to your expertise here.

How do you represent The moment, the kernel within the story, the moment that reels people in, on the cover, at the front of the book, how do you appeal to people?

I would hope it would be that when I go in a room because I'm gonna speak or I'm gonna talk about 1 of my books, I would hope that the first thing that people would see is that light that comes from me, because before I know them, I have prayed for them and for that event.

And I want there to be something different enough in me, something genuine enough in me, that the get past the fact that I flew in somewhere speak, and I'm in my big people clothes -- Mhmm.

-- and to realize, I'm just like them. I struggle just like them, and to encourage anyone that's listening to you out there that isn't struggling just with values, but maybe with faith itself, I just Fingerdale Faith still counts.

And God doesn't judge like us. And if you're just hanging on, like, mufasa is you still got it. There's a lot of grace that can happen when we're just willing to get out there.

And I hope that that kernel of genuine joy, even in the midst of some of the yucky, things that have happened in my life would be evident. That would be my prayer. That's powerful.

And then putting it into your stories, Obviously, like lights of home like you mentioned and, you know, there's a certain amount of vulnerability that has to come with writing about couples because you almost can't help but leave a little bit of you in them in the stories.

Sure. You know? You know, sometimes you're like, oh, we had a good fight.

That would be great material. If I just change it -- Exactly. -- if I just a little bit and, of course, you lay those pieces of yourself there, but then my character in Bearfoot in December did something several things.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not where we're going. But I had created her to the point that that is what she was going to do or say, and so I had to let her do that.

And that is something that I was unprepared for, was like, Wow, your character can have minds of their own even though you created them. Was that uncomfortable? That realization?

Very much. Very much. I still ultimately got where I wanted to go, but there were several twists that I did not see coming and I argued with myself as I typed, but it turned out to be it turned out to be good. That's interesting.

You know, because it's easy to think as authors writing a book, You obviously have it planned out in advance and you've got the entire master strategy done before you started writing, and it must be so easy to write once you get an idea and direction.

Oh, man. Is that true? No. I mean, it may be that way for some people.

And I I knew generally the direction I wanted ahead, but I had this huge notebook full of things written on the back of receipts and I I would think of an awesome piece of dialogue. It's on the back of a napkin.

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A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. A foolish man learns from his own. I had this huge notebook full of things written on the back of receipts, and I I would think of an awesome piece of dialogue.

It's on the back of a napkin, stuck in the notebook, you know, it's just it's just there but then I think, oh, what if this happened to you?

What if this and then my editor said, my character writes a a blog to deal with what she's going with, staying home.

And my editor said, you're gonna have to create blog followers with distinct personalities that follow her just a few times in the book.

And I was like, That seems like a lot of work. Don't wanna do that. And I argued with hope, but she said, no, you're this is gonna make it, and ultimately, people tell me they could identify with 1 of those people as well.

But me and that was a pain, but so yeah. Yeah. That'd be cool. Which book was all this in? Foot in December. Bear foot in December.

Yeah. Bear foot in December. Yeah. That was the novel. Oh, that was the 1 novel that you wrote, you said? Yes. That was my most recent 1, and I don't know if I wanna do that again. But it was very stressful because it's not just okay.

In fact, about this area of your relationship or facts about this area of scripture, it's just this plot that happens. And Dina likes Vanilla ice cream, and she likes peppermint movie candy.

And I'm like, what is wrong with you? It should be chocolate chocolate chocolate. She's just not That's not where her She's very plain in that sort of way, and in a way that I am not.

But she's she's very snarky and sarcastic a little, which comes from me probably more. So, you know, you do leave some of your spots there for sure. Well, I'm sure it's unavoidable.

You know, the fingerprints in whatever the medium is as we communicate are always difficult to erase whether it's written, printed It's just that when people listen to your podcast, they're like, oh, that's a porter way of phrasing this question or getting back to that point, because you have a certain turn of phrase or a certain way that you like to approach things.

And no matter how hard you would try, it would just sneak back in there, which is awesome. It's like a fingerprint. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe so. You know, and it's difficult to change them. Sometimes it's not even necessary to change them.

And you just have to learn to accept them, especially if you never seen them before. Hey. Yeah. That can be sometimes uncomfortable too hearing yourself on the air -- Yes. -- for the first time.

Yes. You know? Like, oh, I would rather eat nails plus I yeah. This is my third week of getting better from bronchitis. So I feel like, you know, sound like I smoke 6 packs a day when actually I don't eat at all. Yeah.

But, you know, it is what it is, and it's that reminder that we have things to offer even with our imperfections, and maybe perhaps because of them, because I think we've all experienced that person that seems almost too good to be true, and at least till we get to know them and are disabused of that notion, they're just irritating.

We're like, can you ever like snort when you laugh or leave your fly unzipped or have a bad hair day for the love. Can you do something that makes me more relatable to you?

And I think when we just give up and we say, this is my offering, and this is I'm going to give it everything I have, and it might be an 80 percent day or a 90 percent day, but might be a 62 percent day.

Mhmm. But if we just leave it all out there, I firmly believe that that can be a blessing regardless of its perfection or not.

And maybe that's the mark of growing up. Maybe that's the biggest mark of growing up. Learning to be okay with being vulnerable. I don't know. But to that end As they get easier as you get older, you seem very young to me.

But -- Thanks. -- as I tell my students, 57 is coming for you. Yeah. It's coming Yep. It'll be here soon for sure. But for the sake of time, Cindy, I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation.

I think it went really well enjoyed it. And for everybody listening, I hope you did as well. But Cindy, if people wanna reach out to you or if they wanna track down your books or just get in touch.

What do you recommend? What do you have? What do you want people to do? I have an author page, Cindy Sigler Dagnan author on Facebook.

I am not on Instagram very often, but it's at Dagnon Cindy. My most recent books are available on Amazon. In the crazy fast world that we live in, usually they'll only keep a you know, lesser name is like John Grissom or somebody.

Your only your your most recent ones are in print, but I know that they just did hot chocolate for couples in a kindle version and have contacted me about doing who got peanut butter in my daily planner for the Kindle version as well, but then that person left, you know, his job at someone else.

So those are ongoing negotiations.

But certainly, I'd love to do that. My speaking agents, if you Google me, you can find them to come and speak a conference, and I'm just an imperfect person who is crazy about Jesus and crazy about life.

And as you mentioned, chocolate and I really want a horse keep circling it on a catalog every Christmas. And so far, my husband has successfully resisted.

But it doesn't stop me from wanting my horse. But I would love to talk with people via that avenue and certainly have enjoyed getting to know you be a podcast and what a wonderful thing to bring the notion of values back.

And I wish you all that blessing in your work. I appreciate that. Thank you. And for everybody listening, all of Cindy's profiles and those links will put directly in the show notes.

So click see more or show more or whatever it is on your preferred player, and you'll be able to see those links down there as well.

But that does round out our conversation this time. So I'd like to thank you all for listening into our core values for April of growth. Stewardship, and contentment within this conversation.

I'd also like to thank Cindy, all of your family, all of your friends, your students, your experiences for making this conversation as fun as it was. I really appreciated the opportunity and to everybody listening.

Obviously, thank you as well. Tuning in and listening to this conversation. I'd also like to thank all of our show partners, Keystone Farmers Market, Hophon Clucker Farms, and obviously buzzsprout for your distribution as well.

Now, folks, if you're interested in joining our conversation or you wanna discover our other interviews, you can check out transacting value podcast dot com.

Or follow along on social media while we continue to stream new interviews every Monday at 9AM Eastern Standard Time on all your favorite podcasting platforms. Until next time. That was transacting value.